S2 6.7 Junk Rig Conversion

  • 08 Nov 2021 21:03
    Reply # 12111113 on 6872873

    A couple of times this summer, while moving through a narrow channel with confused waves, it occurred to me that it would be very, very, bad if my rudder failed right at that moment. 

    With the boat in storage the rudder is now in my garage for inspection. I added a photo album showing the current state of my rudder. I chipped away at the outer layer with a pick in a couple of locations. In general the 'stuff' under the cracks in the white section are solid and very difficult for me to press into with the pick. The 'stuff' under the crack in the red section is soft and easy for me to dig out with the pick.

    I also took some measurements to get a quote for a professional replacement. The quote came back at something like half the amount I paid for the boat.

    So I am trying to decide between a few options.

    1. Pay over $2k for a new fiberglass rudder.
    2. Pay a little less for an HDPE kick-up rudder.
    3. Grind out the cracks in the rudder until I hit something solid and then use thickened epoxy plus fiberglass to repair it.

    I don't think can make my own new fiberglass rudder. I think this would be so time consuming that I would not be able to finish any other boat projects this winter. 

    Does anyone have an opinion on this rudder? The price seems good, but I wonder if plain HDPE will be rigid enough. Over time I imagine it could bend back and forth and eventually fail.

    This is not exactly a junk-rig specific topic, but I enjoy interacting with the people here in our little junk rig cult more than the sailing community in general. :)

    If no one has an opinion to share I will try to find some other S2 6.7 owners.

    Last modified: 08 Nov 2021 21:05 | Anonymous member
  • 08 Nov 2021 20:49
    Reply # 12111075 on 11134770
    David wrote:
    Scott wrote:

    .

    David: Thank you for sharing your observations about my rig. I welcome any and all suggestions for improvement from any JRA member. If anyone thinks some part of my boat is ugly, please let me know what I can do to improve! I would like the finish on the tabernacle to look a little nicer, but I don't really know how to improve it.

    It is not about ugly but more about helping where I can see the rig is not working the way it should, and it seemed to me that the middle of those upper 3 sheeted battens was being pulled more than the battens above and below, which would suggest that the sheetlets are incorrectly set up, and to me, too short. But you have had only one season of sailing whereas I had 'Footprints' with her junk rig for 12 years so in that time one learns quite a lot about how these sails should work. By the time you have fiddled for a couple of seasons you will have figured things out. But the important thing is that you are enjoying the boat with her new rig.

    Your tabernacle is always going to stand out because it is quite a significant structure on such a small boat. Maybe painting it the same colour as the rest of the deck will make it blend in more? 

    Hi David,

    I suppose ugly was not really the right word for me to use. Anything that is not working correctly looks ugly to me. I thought the extra pull on that batten was some expected part of the 'anti-twist' behavior of the sheets. I am appreciative when you and others point out something that is wrong with my rig.

    The parts of the deck and cockpit that I painted last year looked much nicer, out in the sun, than the old gel coat. It was also MUCH easier to clean the bird poo, and whatever else, off the new paint. I am planning to paint the tabernacle, deck and cockpit this winter. We will see if the plans work out.

    Last modified: 08 Nov 2021 21:09 | Anonymous member
  • 02 Oct 2021 06:32
    Reply # 11134770 on 11133128
    Scott wrote:

    .

    David: Thank you for sharing your observations about my rig. I welcome any and all suggestions for improvement from any JRA member. If anyone thinks some part of my boat is ugly, please let me know what I can do to improve! I would like the finish on the tabernacle to look a little nicer, but I don't really know how to improve it.

    It is not about ugly but more about helping where I can see the rig is not working the way it should, and it seemed to me that the middle of those upper 3 sheeted battens was being pulled more than the battens above and below, which would suggest that the sheetlets are incorrectly set up, and to me, too short. But you have had only one season of sailing whereas I had 'Footprints' with her junk rig for 12 years so in that time one learns quite a lot about how these sails should work. By the time you have fiddled for a couple of seasons you will have figured things out. But the important thing is that you are enjoying the boat with her new rig.

    Your tabernacle is always going to stand out because it is quite a significant structure on such a small boat. Maybe painting it the same colour as the rest of the deck will make it blend in more? 

  • 01 Oct 2021 16:21
    Reply # 11133128 on 6872873

    Thank you for the suggestion Arne.

    Yesterday I went out to the boat and tried to rig up something with small blocks for the sheetlets. I think the lower span with two blocks looks OK. Trying to use three blocks for the upper spans did not work so well.

    I am still planning to haul the boat for the winter on Sunday, so I will need to wait 7 months or so before I can try again. I will likely try to make a soft euphroe following your write up.

    David: Thank you for sharing your observations about my rig. I welcome any and all suggestions for improvement from any JRA member. If anyone thinks some part of my boat is ugly, please let me know what I can do to improve! I would like the finish on the tabernacle to look a little nicer, but I don't really know how to improve it.

    Last modified: 01 Oct 2021 22:18 | Anonymous member
  • 30 Sep 2021 00:31
    Reply # 11129789 on 6872873
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Scott,
    It appears that you have the same friction problem as I detected on my Ingeborg this spring. If you reread that write-up and in addition check this year’s appendix to it, you will find that I replaced that single thimble up there with a ‘soft euphroe’. This has cut the friction enough to make the upper sheetlet set well.

    Arne


  • 29 Sep 2021 22:24
    Reply # 11129625 on 11129549
    David wrote:
    Scott wrote:

    I posted this video showing the current state of the rig on my S2. I think this is likely the end of rig updates for this season. Unless something breaks I will spend the remainder of the summer sailing and not fussing with the rigging.


    I had a look at your video and it seemed that the leech of the sail was not looking very good. I wonder if your sheetlets are long enough, are they set up as per the recommendations in PJR? It may have been the angle the video was shot from but on the top span, which I think connected 3 battens the sheet pull seemed to be coming from the middle of the 3 battens, rather than pulling down equally on all 3.

    It is normal for some things to not work out initially and to even break, but the nice thing about the junk rig is that everything is low tech and does not cost much to change/replace. When we fitted the new sail to 'Footprints' there was a lot of modification during the first season, but from then on everything has remained static and 9 years later the rig has required virtually no maintenance, just a bit of line adjustment from time to time. If something breaks or chafes through it is a matter of finding the cause and then making an improvement next time round. And bungee cord which you mentioned in your later email just seems to last no time in the sun.

    The really good thing is that you have completed your junk conversion and have been able to get out on the water and enjoy the fruits of all your hard work so congratulations on a successful first season.

    I have the sheetlets setup as a copy of the 'New sheetlets, a Mk.2 version of the Johanna-sheeting' in Arne's Fixes, adjustments and improvements on Ingeborg letter. Or, at least, my attempt at copying them.

    I have been looking at the three upper sheeted battens all summer trying to decide if they are pulling at the correct angle. I think the leech of my sail sort of looks like the one on Ingeborg.

    I plan to replace the cord that connects the to upper three battens with a longer section of rope or cord to see if it works better. I am still trying to decide if I should also make the upper-most sheeted batten a little bit shorter.

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    Last modified: 30 Sep 2021 21:22 | Anonymous member
  • 29 Sep 2021 21:38
    Reply # 11129549 on 10972875
    Scott wrote:

    I posted this video showing the current state of the rig on my S2. I think this is likely the end of rig updates for this season. Unless something breaks I will spend the remainder of the summer sailing and not fussing with the rigging.


    I had a look at your video and it seemed that the leech of the sail was not looking very good. I wonder if your sheetlets are long enough, are they set up as per the recommendations in PJR? It may have been the angle the video was shot from but on the top span, which I think connected 3 battens the sheet pull seemed to be coming from the middle of the 3 battens, rather than pulling down equally on all 3.

    It is normal for some things to not work out initially and to even break, but the nice thing about the junk rig is that everything is low tech and does not cost much to change/replace. When we fitted the new sail to 'Footprints' there was a lot of modification during the first season, but from then on everything has remained static and 9 years later the rig has required virtually no maintenance, just a bit of line adjustment from time to time. If something breaks or chafes through it is a matter of finding the cause and then making an improvement next time round. And bungee cord which you mentioned in your later email just seems to last no time in the sun.

    The really good thing is that you have completed your junk conversion and have been able to get out on the water and enjoy the fruits of all your hard work so congratulations on a successful first season.

    Last modified: 29 Sep 2021 21:41 | Anonymous member
  • 29 Sep 2021 18:57
    Reply # 11129247 on 6872873
    I try to avoid being superstitious. But in the future I don't think I will write, "Unless something breaks", on the public forums.

    The bungee cord I had holding the tiller clearly was not made to be out in the sun all summer. It just sort of disintegrated while I was out on the big lake. Not a critical failure, but it was annoying.

    I also had one of the batten parrels come untied from the batten. Again it was not critical and I could still sail with the line hanging loose. I tied a short loop of rope to the batten, the way Arne did recently, to make a more reliable attachment point. I did not stitch it to the pocket like Arne did, but I put a patch of grip tape on the batten before using cord to lash the larger loop to the batten. I plan to do this for all the batten and HK parrels this winter.

    It was suggested to me that holding my phone against the boat might show the motion of the boat a little better. Below is a video where I held the phone against the cabin top and deck while sailing in something like 2.5 ft waves. This is near the upper end of what I consider comfortable sailing.

    https://youtu.be/pQSaeSy6m-I

    I think I am done sailing for the year. I am planning to haul the boat out this week.

    Happy Spring to those of you in the Southern Hemisphere!

  • 31 Aug 2021 23:16
    Reply # 10972875 on 6872873

    I posted this video showing the current state of the rig on my S2. I think this is likely the end of rig updates for this season. Unless something breaks I will spend the remainder of the summer sailing and not fussing with the rigging.

    There are three recent changes (that I can remember).

    1. I could never get the leech of the sail to sit flush with the battens using outhauls. This would cause many snags while hoisting the sail. I gave up and made holes through the sail at each batten and directly bolted the sail to the existing holes in the battens. After trying a couple of different strategies I ended up using a cordless drill the make the holes and my butane hot knife to fuse the material before bolting it all together.

    2. The way I had the Tack Line rigged caused the line to chafe and almost destroy itself. I put shackles on the large rubber bungee and used a larger polyester line to attach it to the boom. This seems to be more robust.

    3. The block for the Throat Hauling Parrel was tied on with small polyester cord. This was also about half way eaten up by chafe. I replaced this with a shackle. It seems very strong now. Hopefully it is, at least, 'good enough'.

  • 31 Aug 2021 23:05
    Reply # 10972867 on 10953381
    Arne wrote:

    [...]That red and white material is just tape. I put it under the hose clamps to avoid corrosion, and I didn’t bother with removing it when going Dyneema. Thanks to that little white ‘safety string', that lashing will never slip.[...]

    Hi Arne,

    Thank you for answering my question about the tape. Is there some reason why you used Dyneema? The low stretch and high strength properties do not seem to be critical in this application. I think Dyneema is also relatively slippery rope, meaning it does not hold knots as well as something like polyester.

    I would like to use your method to attach the my batten parrels. I am too cheap to buy Dyneema unless it is necessary.

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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