S2 6.7 Junk Rig Conversion

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  • 05 Jan 2021 16:58
    Reply # 9694210 on 9425495
    Annie wrote:

    [...] The rotating hood allows me to have pleny of air moving through the boat, even in heavy rain from astern: it also allows me to use the hood as a wind scoop.  It is a lovely place to contemplate the morning with a cup of tea.  Oh yes - it's an excellent place to keep watch and manage the sail(s)!

    I found your argument convincing. This seems like the simplest solution for me to sail in the rain without getting completely soaked and to sail in the sun without getting directly cooked.

    The first time I read through the rotating pram hood section of PJR I did not understand how it operates or how I would make one. In the last few weeks I read this section again and still had no idea. Then I looked at the photos and details you shared here. I was still not able to get it straight in my head.

    After going back and forth between your photos and the information in PJR several times I am now confident in my understanding of the pramhood construction and operation. The pictures were, as you hoped, worth a thousand words.

    Will you answer two questions about the pram hood arrangement on Fanshi?

    First, would you please share the actual dimension of the rings 'E' and 'F' from PJR Figure 13.15? I am considering using 1/2" plywood.

    Second, can you confirm that my understanding of the companionway arrangement on Fanshi is correct? It looks like there is a section of the deck that will prevent the companionway from being opened completely. To enter from the cockpit you will need to sort of climb under the deck and to enter from the deck you will need to go straight down the circular hatch. Did I get that right?

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    Last modified: 07 Jan 2021 22:11 | Anonymous member
  • 13 Dec 2020 04:13
    Reply # 9425495 on 6872873

    I originally planned to extend the deck over the after bulkhead, but realised that it would make it very uncomfortable to sit there.  Possibly I could get my head under it, but few other people could and leaning back against the cabin is a nice place to lounge.  The 'eyebrow' along the edge of the teak deck appears to prevent drips.

    Dodgers, hard or soft are made on the assumption that a boat is always head to wind.  However in tidal waters (and marinas, for that matter), the wind is not infrequently from the side or even directly astern.  Then the fixed dodger acts as a funnel for wind and rain.  This was the main reason for my going to the effort of installing a pram hood opening.  The rotating hood allows me to have pleny of air moving through the boat, even in heavy rain from astern: it also allows me to use the hood as a wind scoop.  It is a lovely place to contemplate the morning with a cup of tea.  Oh yes - it's an excellent place to keep watch and manage the sail(s)!


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    Last modified: 13 Dec 2020 04:16 | Anonymous member
  • 12 Dec 2020 22:09
    Reply # 9425086 on 9423811
    David wrote:
    Scott wrote:

    I was thinking about something doing something like this with the large hatch.

    I think that companionway style is flawed. With an almost horizontal opening every time it rains, or in rough sea conditions, the hatch will need to be closed ... Some type of dodger, either soft or hard improves the all weather utilisation of an open, or partially open companionway. 

    I share this view. This type of companionway is for very serious sailing in high latitudes where a rollover is a distinct possibility, and needs to be combined with a lookout position that is equally watertight - a clear dome, a Hasler pramhood with good closure or a Mingming-style doghouse. A rollover, not just a 120˚ knockdown, a conventional sliding hatch + captive washboards can cope with that (a few cupfuls of water spurting through the chinks might be annoying, but they are not life-threatening). The only example that I'd want to go to sea with is this one, with a hard dodger protecting the angled hatch. Not that I have any intention of circumnavigating non-stop in a 22ft boat. 
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    Last modified: 12 Dec 2020 22:17 | Anonymous member
  • 12 Dec 2020 06:54
    Reply # 9423811 on 9420629
    Scott wrote:

    Congratulations! I need to learn your secret. I think you will finish building a complete boat in less time than I spent converting this one.

    I was thinking about something doing something like this with the large hatch.


    It has been about 2 and a half years since I started, but then I did nothing through our winter of last year because I was book writing. So about 2 years of part time work. I would not have done so well if it were not for 6 weeks of full time boatbuilding during Lockdown. And then I sold the big yacht several months ago so being Beatles provides a lot of incentive. The catamaran has been more work than I expected. I am currently putting in about 3 days a week almost full time through those days. I am a bit over boat building, so looking forward to sailing. Today I fitted the deck hatch, and the solar panels, and undercoated the hulls. Over the next two days I will finish painting the hulls and hopefully cut out and install the Polycarbonate cabin windows. I just keep driving myself because our summer is now almost here and I want to go boating.

    I think that companionway style is flawed. With an almost horizontal opening every time it rains, or in rough sea conditions, the hatch will need to be closed. On my catamaran the design showed the aft cabin bulkhead which has the companionway opening as inclined forward. In a climate such as we have in New Zealand where rain is a common feature that inclined aft bulkhead and companionway opening would be a disaster. So I have made the bulkhead vertical. The sliding hatch when closed extends partially over the bulkhead opening. See photo below. The best solution for a companionway is a vertical entry through the cabin bulkhead, and a sliding hatch, or just the cabin roof extending if possible out beyond the vertical bulkhead opening. Some type of dodger, either soft or hard improves the all weather utilisation of an open, or partially open companionway. 

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    Last modified: 12 Dec 2020 20:01 | Anonymous member
  • 12 Dec 2020 03:35
    Reply # 9423636 on 9420629
    Anonymous wrote:
    David wrote:

    [...] we are very close to a launch date so will know how it all works out in a months time.

    Congratulations! I need to learn your secret. I think you will finish building a complete boat in less time than I spent converting this one.

    I was thinking about something doing something like this with the large hatch.


    I bet a very good dodger or hood could go a long way to help her keep that nice smile.
  • 10 Dec 2020 22:53
    Reply # 9420629 on 9415613
    David wrote:

    [...] we are very close to a launch date so will know how it all works out in a months time.

    Congratulations! I need to learn your secret. I think you will finish building a complete boat in less time than I spent converting this one.

    I was thinking about something doing something like this with the large hatch.


  • 09 Dec 2020 06:29
    Reply # 9415613 on 9414850
    Scott wrote:

    Thank you David, Mark and David.

    I very much appreciate the advice of long-time sailors. I will take it to heart.

    I am shopping for a small ventilation hatch that will go on the foredeck somewhere. I think I will hold on to the full size hatch and use it to make a more water-tight companionway, if I ever have time!

    I had hoped to avoid spending money on a new hatch. If anyone knows someone who wants to buy the original mast and other spars please send them my way! That would really help my boat budget.

    Proper deck hatches are very expensive, which is one thing that did motivate my decision. But I am happy with my smaller Vetus hatch which measures about 280 mm x 150 mm. The hinges will be on the forward side so the hatch will open on the aft side. That way even in heavy rain it can be left slightly open to provide some ventilation. It is positioned above the head end of the double berth so as to provide ventilation through the night.

    The aft cabin bulkhead also has a window which is hinged at the top and can be propped open. This is important for ventilation in New Zealand's quite hot summer climate. 

    I am not totally sure of the best answer for a water-tight companionway on a small yacht. Annie has her own very good solution. On 'Footprints' we had a conventional companionway and sliding hatch, with a solid dodger built just around the hatch opening. That proved to be very waterproof even in an ocean crossing environment with waves sweeping across the deck and through the cockpit. But the companionway opening was set forward by about 300 mm from the aft cabin bulkhead which I expect contributed to the success of the arrangement. I had hope to duplicate this on the catamaran but have been unable to do so for practical reasons in such a small boat. So I have a conventional sliding hatch with drop boards in the opening. I intend having a boom tent which I hope will help with a waterproof cabin opening when staying on board during inclement weather. Anyway we are very close to a launch date so will know how it all works out in a months time.

    Last modified: 09 Dec 2020 06:31 | Anonymous member
  • 08 Dec 2020 22:35
    Reply # 9414850 on 6872873

    Thank you David, Mark and David.

    I very much appreciate the advice of long-time sailors. I will take it to heart.

    I am shopping for a small ventilation hatch that will go on the foredeck somewhere. I think I will hold on to the full size hatch and use it to make a more water-tight companionway, if I ever have time!

    I had hoped to avoid spending money on a new hatch. If anyone knows someone who wants to buy the original mast and other spars please send them my way! That would really help my boat budget.

  • 08 Dec 2020 13:12
    Reply # 9413295 on 6872873

    Perhaps Benefits of a fore hatch needs a separate thread?

    one other:

    the mast falls down, an blocks the main hatch.  A reason to avoid a single outward opening hatch.  You don’t see this on yachts, but all Navy vessel do so.

  • 07 Dec 2020 08:53
    Reply # 9409774 on 6872873

    Scott,

    It seems that as long-term seamen, David and I have done the risk assessment and come to the same conclusion. I think that for me, it goes something like this:

    What would cause a fire in the cockpit? An outboard and its fuel tank. What's to be done? Come out of the main hatch fast, toting a large extinguisher of appropriate type. Coming out of a forehatch would be too late, an explosion may have happened by then.

    What would cause a cabin fire that would trap me? A propane cooker? No answer, there's an explosion, not a fire, and the boat and I are a write-off. Vented lead/acid battery (gives off hydrogen)? Better to fit a sealed type. An alcohol cooker? A small fire can be extinguished quickly and easily with water, no need to evacuate via a forehatch. A solid fuel or diesel heater? Not applicable to this size and type of boat. 

    What else would trap me in the cabin? A major leak? Having a forehatch doesn't help. A main hatch that is self-securing from the outside? Not a good plan, avoid this in fitting out. Violent intruder? Possible but unlikely, and a forehatch wouldn't help.

    Anything I missed? Forehatches might be needed for sail handling on those boats unfortunate enough to be rigged with other than JR, but we can save ourselves the downsides of major leak possibility, plus the work and cost to install one.

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