S2 6.7 Junk Rig Conversion

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  • 16 Jun 2021 10:46
    Reply # 10647269 on 6872873
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Scott,

    I notice the same asymmetry on my Ingeborg. When doing very short tacking up a channel, I leave it as it is, but on longer legs, I may do small corrections from tack to tack.

    Anyway, it is common practice among racing folks to ease the mainsheet a bit as they come about, to speed up acceleration, and then they haul in the sheet, as the speed has been won.

    There are two more noise-factors with respect to symmetric tacking in a JR:

    • ·         If the batten parrels are slack, the sail will ride at a bit distance from the mast on sb. tack. Then the sail will act as if it has been sheeted harder in, sort of.
    • ·         In my waters, at least, the direction of wind and waves is often not the same: On one tack, it feels like heading almost right into the chop, while on the other, the waves are more on the side. I frequently adjust the pointing angle with this in mind.

    I therefore am not too concerned about getting the sheetpoint perfectly “symmetric”.

    Arne


  • 15 Jun 2021 14:16
    Reply # 10641578 on 10602152
    David wrote:

    [...]

    Just a thought about your difference in tack.

    I notice the sheeting point on the transom is more to one side.

    Is it a bit too far to one side, I wonder.

    If you don't adjust your sheet slightly after you tack from starboard to port, I think the sail will be hauled in tighter on port, resulting in more weather helm on port.

    [...]

    Hi David,

    After correcting the more significant problem by adding HK parrels it is clear that the double block for the sheet should be closer to the center of the boat. When starting on a new tack I have to adjust the sheet to make up for this difference.

    I think I will re-work the entire sheeting setup. In addition to getting it positioned properly, I would like to have the sheet block up on a rail and add some sort of hoop to prevent the sheets from grabbing me and/or the tiller!

  • 13 Jun 2021 16:54
    Reply # 10628877 on 6872873
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Good, Scott  -
    when everything fails, read the instructions...

    As for that tack line, I recommend using an elastic tack line; one with a stout rubbersnubber on it, as shown on page 6 of this write-up.

    I also recommend fitting one telltale to the leech of every panel. These prevent you from making the standard blunder  -  oversheeting the sail.

    Arne

    Last modified: 13 Jun 2021 21:00 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 13 Jun 2021 15:57
    Reply # 10628655 on 10602260
    Arne wrote:

    Scott,
    after all the hard work you have done to get that rig working, I think both you and the sail deserve to finish the job:

    To get rid of all those diagonal creases, I suggest you fit Hong Kong parrels and a running throat parrel.

    In addition, to stop that lowest leech from fluttering, an elastic tack line, tied to the boom so it looks like a kicking strap, should be fitted. When the sail is fully up, the TL should have some stretch in it.

    Good luck  -  remember that a sail has only been finished when it has been correctly rigged.

    Arne

    PS: Here is how it should look. The HK parrels do most of the job, but by pulling a bit on the THP, the load on the HKPs is much reduced. No bend in the battens.

    PPS:
    The diagonal creases in your sail are not just cosmetic. They remove a good deal of camber, so I think you lose some drive and suffer added drag instead.
    Going upwind and tacking is all about improving the lift to drag ratio.


    You were, of course, absolutely correct Arne. I got it in my head that the creases were just cosmetic. I added HK parrels. The difference in performance is like night and day. I was having too much fun sailing to stop and get a photo, but my sail sets much like the one in your latest reply. I have not missed a tack with the HK parrels rigged.

    It seems I needed to learn the importance of HK parrels on my own. Thank you for explaining to me personally why they are necessary. It is clearly described in your book and write-ups. I should have just done what you said to do! You have been such a great help.

    I am very happy with the sail I made following your design. I will be sure to get a photo, next time, showing the beautiful camber that develops with the HK parrels rigged.

    I am having a little more trouble with the standing tack line. If it is taught enough to pull the boom down when sailing on the wind then it is too short to let the boom swing all the way out when running directly down wind.

    I am also attempting to build a tiller brake following your write up.



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  • 08 Jun 2021 09:12
    Reply # 10604097 on 10601801
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    Anonymous wrote:

    The video shows me tacking to change from the starboard to port tack. It is much more difficult to 'make' this tack. I have 'missed' and got blown back onto the starboard tack several times. (It seems to happen most often when people on shore can see me). Tacking the other direction is very easy. I have never had a problem.

    I am trying to decide if this is a problem that I can fix, or if this is just the way it is.

    Me too, Scott, and I’ll be interested to hear any solutions?  In light airs the boat (Newbridge Venturer 22 - so a quite heavy bilge keeled) has not got enough momentum to go through the tack, and in a F5 it has some momentum but gets held up by th chop.  And yes, there’s always someone watching! 
  • 07 Jun 2021 21:44
    Reply # 10602260 on 6872873
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Scott,
    after all the hard work you have done to get that rig working, I think both you and the sail deserve to finish the job:

    To get rid of all those diagonal creases, I suggest you fit Hong Kong parrels and a running throat parrel.

    In addition, to stop that lowest leech from fluttering, an elastic tack line, tied to the boom so it looks like a kicking strap, should be fitted. When the sail is fully up, the TL should have some stretch in it.

    Good luck  -  remember that a sail has only been finished when it has been correctly rigged.

    Arne

    PS: Here is how it should look. The HK parrels do most of the job, but by pulling a bit on the THP, the load on the HKPs is much reduced. No bend in the battens.

    PPS:
    The diagonal creases in your sail are not just cosmetic. They remove a good deal of camber, so I think you lose some drive and suffer added drag instead.
    Going upwind and tacking is all about improving the lift to drag ratio.


    Last modified: 08 Jun 2021 11:23 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 07 Jun 2021 20:57
    Reply # 10602152 on 6872873

    Nice job, Scott. Happy days sailing.


    Just a thought about your difference in tack.

    I notice the sheeting point on the transom is more to one side.

    Is it a bit too far to one side, I wonder.

    If you don't adjust your sheet slightly after you tack from starboard to port, I think the sail will be hauled in tighter on port, resulting in more weather helm on port.

    Also I think because of that, you will be sailing slighter higher on port, if sailing to telltales, so may be sailing a bit slower, which would make tacking a bit more difficult.


    You could try adjusting the sheet out slightly on port tack.

    If that works and reduces weather helm on port, you might consider moving the sheeting point on the transom closer to the centre, which might mean you won't have to adjust the sheet each time you go into port tack.


    May make no difference at all, but worth a try?

    Dave d.

  • 07 Jun 2021 18:21
    Reply # 10601801 on 6872873
    Conditions were right to have the full sail up and be out on the 'big lake' on Saturday. I was able to record a video. Please ignore the mess of lines and dirty boat.

    On the starboard tack on a close reach the sail balances the boat just about perfectly without me touching anything. On the port tack there just a little bit of weather helm. It is barely noticeable but it is enough that the boat will tack through if I don't keep my hand on the tiller.

    The video shows me tacking to change from the starboard to port tack. It is much more difficult to 'make' this tack. I have 'missed' and got blown back onto the starboard tack several times. (It seems to happen most often when people on shore can see me). Tacking the other direction is very easy. I have never had a problem.

    I am trying to decide if this is a problem that I can fix, or if this is just the way it is.

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    Last modified: 07 Jun 2021 18:53 | Anonymous member
  • 24 May 2021 15:05
    Reply # 10544465 on 10529940
    Ueli wrote:

    hi scott

    sitting on the lee side is very convenient in light winds – and it reduces the lee helm a lot on small boats.

    I will try moving my personal ballast around like you suggested. I think I was staying on one side of the boat while I was attempting to sail in the very light wind. This explains why the lee helm was worse on one tack. Thank you.

  • 24 May 2021 14:37
    Reply # 10544381 on 10531572

    Annie wrote:

    I had to have the mat band made because of the stainless steel tubing attached to the back of it, that the bolt goes through.  I was lucky enough to find a real 'old-time' metalworker for this, who took the trouble to understand what it was we were trying to achieve and to sketch it out so that we were both on the same page.  I wish I'd known about him earlier.  He also lined the ring with Mylar to avoid any corrosion between it and the mast.  I obviously didn't take a photo of it when we were stepping the mast - I was a tad distracted at the time!  It's pouring with rain at present, but if you require a photo, I'll take one for you when the weather improves.

    I agree with the other comments that lee helm is not unusual in very light airs, with junk rig.  Also, of course, junk rig is much more amenable to adjustments made after the event, than a sail sliding up a track or hanked to a forestay.

    Hi Annie,

    Thank you for the response. Please do not go out in the rain just to get me a photo. When the weather is better and, if you have time, I would like to see some of the details.

    I am always amazed to find that there is a proper nautical term for every part of a sailboat. I spent some time looking at images of 'mast bands' used on traditional western sailing rigs. I had no idea this piece had a name.

    On Saturday the weather was just about perfect for day sailing on Lake Michigan. The wind was about 9 knots from the south with smooth water and clear weather. This is perfect for going out on a reach, as far as you care to go, and then sailing right back on the reciprocal tack.

    In these conditions I experienced neutral helm and just a slight bit of pleasant weather helm. It was a good day sailing and I am very happy with the rig.

    To be clear I am absolutely happy that I converted to a Junk Rig. It is so much better for single handed sailing than a mainsail on a track and a hanked-on foresail.

    In no particular order this is what I am enjoying:

    - If I need to drop the sail and depower the rig quickly all I have to do it let the halyard go from the rope clutch. This is awesome.

    - If I need just a little bit of sail to get moving again in the harbor it is just as easy to pull one or two panels back up and sail slowly. The precise maneuvering I can do under sail is great.

    - The sail is so quiet. Letting the sail luff makes a very soft and pleasant sound. To me it sounds like fresh, dry snow under my boots on a calm winter night. This is so much different than a triangular Dacron sail flogging in the wind.

    - I can round the boat up into the wind (in irons) to stop for a minute without any stressful sail noise. This has already been useful several times.

    - I have one big yellow sail.

    - Even when things did not go exactly right hoisting the sail I never had to leave the cockpit. I am sure I am much safer. It is very unlikely that I will fall on to the deck or off of the boat.

    - Self tacking! Working my way up wind is fun. No sail trimming required. I just sail back and forth using the tiller. It is so easy and enjoyable.

    Scott.

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    Last modified: 24 May 2021 17:34 | Anonymous member
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