Windvane selfsteering gear questions

  • 07 Oct 2012 20:08
    Reply # 1097080 on 1095916
    Deleted user
    Gary King wrote:

    (Somehow.. the skill of posting pictures has returned to me.. you can 
    see the whole pic by clicking on it)
    Hi Gary. Lest you've missed it, David has added an image facility to the Technical Forum called 'Techinical Forum Illustrations'. It's in the menu just below 'Technical Forum'. Glad you found a way to have the whole image appear, but probably better to use the new facility in the future, since Wild Apricote don't really, as far as I can see, support images in forums. Thanks.
  • 06 Oct 2012 22:00
    Reply # 1096417 on 673518
    Very interesting design Gary. I've saved the PDF for future reference.
  • 06 Oct 2012 05:19
    Reply # 1095916 on 673518
    Deleted user
    I just stumbled across an ideal solution for double enders with 
    outboard rudders, invented by Jan Alkema. It mounts on top 
    of the rudder, no big frame mounts, no lines to the tiller, not 
    a trim tab but with the advantages of one and is still a servo 
    pendulum gear.
    The RHM Windvane.
    null

    It is suited to vertical rudders, for a canted rudder (like mine) he has 
    a simple mod, by adding blocks allowing the pendulum to drive the 
    trailing edge of the rudder directly.

    But Jan Alkema's most awesome invention, is the upside down 
    windvane (USD). No counter weights to clock you on the head, 
    small in size and always vertical.

    (Somehow.. the skill of posting pictures has returned to me.. you can 
    see the whole pic by clicking on it)
    Last modified: 06 Oct 2012 05:38 | Deleted user
  • 01 Oct 2012 11:30
    Reply # 1087695 on 673518

    Thanks David,

    That's answered my questions. I'll stay with good old ply and epoxy. Serves me right for assuming I could 'improve' on Bill Belcher's time proven concept.

    I hadn't given the weight factor much thought having seen the impressive lumps of ironmongery bolted to many boats' transoms. I think the Aries weighs approx 75lb!

    I like the idea of a tube/fabric vane rather than the stiffened ply one. And I'll make it to the 'remove 300mm' size. I can always try reducing it further until the point of diminishing returns makes itself apparent.

     

    Jerry 

     

  • 30 Sep 2012 19:49
    Reply # 1087320 on 1087250
    Jerry Stebbing wrote:

    I'll make sure I tilt the blade as recommended by David.

    The vane specified by Bill Belcher is pretty huge and far bigger than those used on commercial gears like the Windpilot, Monitor and Aries. I don't think the work the Belcher gear's blade does is any greater than the others so could I safely reduce the vane size without jeopardizing light airs downwind sensitivity?

    Jerry

    The text on p122 says "This is, perhaps, a little oversize... about 300mm could be cut off the top". I think I'd agree. There is no negative feedback in the primary linkage, vane to servo, so a too-powerful vane is not a good thing in this design. I actually prefer a very large vane, with a high gear ratio between vane and servo, kept under control by a lot of negative feedback.

    Light airs sensitivity is more about getting the friction as low as possible and getting the mass balance right in all the moving parts.
  • 30 Sep 2012 19:32
    Reply # 1087314 on 673518
    Tufnol is an excellent engineering plastic, but is much heavier than plywood, and shouldn't be used in large pieces in a vane gear, where weight is a disadvantage. Its lubricity is only moderate, and though it was used for bearings in the Hasler gears, it ought to be kept well greased.
    HDPE has excellent lubricity and low water absorption, which makes it very useful for bearings on boats. However, it is not particularly light, strong or stiff. White HDPE has a short life in sunlight, black is always better (black pigment reduces the UV penetration into the heart of the material more than do lighter colours).
    Polypropylene has nothing particularly to recommend it for marine use.

    My vane turret is made from scraps of plywood, bonded and well coated with epoxy and protected with two coats of two-part polyurethane paint. It has not needed any maintenance in over twelve years. Indeed, my entire boat is made this way. I reckon it to be a low maintenance method of boat construction. Plywood bonded onto a timber frame is good engineering, with a good combination of strength, stiffness and lightness. I recommend that you stay with Bill Belcher's construction method; coat it and paint it well and you won't have any ongoing maintenance concerns. By all means use some small pieces of engineering plastic for bearings. Black HDPE is good, but if you find some black Delrin (acetal resin) or Nylatron (MoS-filled nylon), they are also good.
  • 30 Sep 2012 16:06
    Reply # 1087250 on 673518

    One of the winter projects for my newly acquired Rustler 31 is to build a pendulum servo gear as described on pages 122-127 of my copy of Bill Belcher's excellent book.

    The plans show a hardwood mounting framework and the vane bracket, blade carrier and lever arm are built from 6mm and 12mm plywood. I'm happy to stay with the wood framework but am inclined to try some sort of engineering plastic sheet as a low maintenance substitute for the ply. There are some good online plastics suppliers here in the UK but the range of materials is huge and somewhat confusing. What would be a good choice: tufnol, HDPE, Polypropylene,etc, etc? And should I choose similar thicknesses to the plywood it's replacing? Are the black varieties more UV resistant than white or natural?

    I know that bonding is an issue with some of the 'slippery' plastics so I could use short lengths of aluminium angle and bolts to hold everything together rather than the timber battens and glue/screws used in the ply construction.

    I'll make sure I tilt the blade as recommended by David.

    The vane specified by Bill Belcher is pretty huge and far bigger than those used on commercial gears like the Windpilot, Monitor and Aries. I don't think the work the Belcher gear's blade does is any greater than the others so could I safely reduce the vane size without jeopardizing light airs downwind sensitivity?

    Jerry

  • 26 Sep 2012 02:50
    Reply # 1083305 on 1080651
    Gary King wrote:New editions of Belcher's book is available at:
    http://www.boatbooks.co.nz/fitandmtce.html

    2/3rds down the page.  NZ$41


    That should definitely be included in the Links.
  • 23 Sep 2012 15:13
    Reply # 1080651 on 673518
    Deleted user
    New editions of Belcher's book are available at:
    http://www.boatbooks.co.nz/fitandmtce.html

    2/3rds down the page.  NZ$41

    Last modified: 30 Sep 2012 18:04 | Deleted user
  • 23 Sep 2012 14:06
    Reply # 1080623 on 868769
    Karlis K wrote:
    Does anyone have an scanned ebook version of Bill Belcher's book "Wind Vane Self Steering"?  Used ones are going for $50-$200 which I suppose is less than buying a new wind vane but it's more than Mr. Groves spent on his Reggie's parts!  I suspect there might be a pdf copy around, I'd love to have a look at it!



    It's not Belcher's book but this is a free PDF.
    http://windpilot.com/n/pdf/bookeng.pdf
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