Galion 22 conversion

  • 21 May 2021 12:42
    Reply # 10529448 on 5070195

    True, although I was hoping to be able to fit the vane turret on the solar panel arc. Being a non-engineer I never understood the split system drawing you made...

    On my existing system the vane turret is quite heavy, and makes it hard to lift the system out when needed. The vane also has very little room to work (because of the said arc).

  • 21 May 2021 09:52
    Reply # 10529154 on 5070195

    Jami,

    If you were starting from zero, the trim tab would be a contender, but ...

    Given that you already have a pendulum gear to my design that you say works very well, it seems to me that for the least amount of new work and the most confidence in the end result, you only have to make a new mounting frame that is wide enough and long enough to fit around the new rudder. That avoids stepping into the unknown with the RHM, and probably getting worse performance all round  from the trim tab.

    Don't be afraid to tilt the frame up a bit, so that servo blade trails and the vane leans forward a bit - say 2 - 4 degrees. This will make it easier to get the servo blade clear of the rudder.

    Last modified: 21 May 2021 09:56 | Anonymous member
  • 21 May 2021 09:27
    Reply # 10529090 on 5070195

    The set up in photo B would be ideal for adding balance to the trimtab, but the tab would still be running in the wake of the rudder. A balanced pendulum, which is only a trimtab which turns in the same direction as the rudder and adds power rather than subtracting from the rudder power spends most of its time running in clear water. That plus the longer moment arm and yaw damping makes it a more powerful tool. 

    The Jan Alkema RHM has the pendulum advantages for just a little more construction complication, and can be arranged to lift clear of the water for close in manoeuvring and when in harbour. As your ideas are developing, would it not be worth having a re-read to the Catalyst Jan Alkema article and check its advantages of power and yaw damping, for the same vane input?

    Cheers, Slieve.

    Last modified: 21 May 2021 09:47 | Anonymous member
  • 20 May 2021 20:30
    Reply # 10527323 on 5070195

    Of course, if the vane has enough power. It might be helped with a little balance on the trim tab.

    And if it doesn’t work, I’ll make a new turret for the vane.

    Thanks again.

  • 20 May 2021 18:37
    Reply # 10526933 on 5070195

    My initial thought was "correct". But then I thought "what if you put a 1:2 fool's purchase in the lines?" That would make the drum appear to be 15cm diameter.

  • 20 May 2021 17:07
    Reply # 10526698 on 5070195

    Thanks David,

    but would this still mean that I wouldn't be able to use the wind vane I made using your plans?. It has a 75mm tube as a drum.

    Last modified: 20 May 2021 17:10 | Anonymous member
  • 20 May 2021 17:03
    Reply # 10526690 on 5070195

    It has to be picture B. Picture A makes the tab tiller way too long. With B, the tab tiller can be 20cm long, and the negative feedback will be correct at that. Then, if using a flip-flop vane, the drum would need to be about 14cm diameter; or if using a vertical axis vane, the lever arm of the latch gear would need to be about 20cm.

    It's OK to have the tab spaced away from the rudder somewhat. There have been successful steering gears like this, on Folkboat-style rudders with vertical tabs mounted purely on the rudder head.

  • 20 May 2021 16:44
    Reply # 10526614 on 5070195

    Hmm, let's see. Here's the rudder again:


    As you can see, there's significant angle aft and even more above the waterline. Here's a better picture of this, let's call it A:


    The rudder axle is in a very comfortable position in relation to the solar panel arc, on which I would install the wind vane (like it once was).

    But if should make a trim tab along this yellow axle, the "trim tab tiller" would be about 35cm (10cm gap + 25cm)  long to reach the point of the rudder axle. Sounds too much to me, for the horizontal David Tyler -style wind vane to be able to move the tiller enough.

    Let's see picture B:


    This way the trim tab would sit on a different angle than the trailing edge of the rudder. However, the "trim tab tiller" length would be reduced to 25cm to reach the tiller axle. 

    Any ideas on how to proceed, please?

    (The yellowish dust you see on the transom and rudder is birch pollen. Today was the worst pollen-day ever. Not a good day to paint the mast... but then again the weather has been changing between rain, rain and cold with little dry days. So I had to paint the mast today. Well, my sail is yellow, so the microscopic yellow dots don't matter that much :D )

    Last modified: 20 May 2021 16:48 | Anonymous member
  • 20 May 2021 15:20
    Reply # 10526443 on 5070195
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Bonjour


    The trim tab (a tab in fact) acts by creating an artificial camber to the rudder plate that builds a relative depression near the trailing edge of the rudder plate on the side opposite to the tab orientation (the water fillets have a longer course and so run faster). The depression creates a force, that creates a torque that turns the rudder.

    So the tab should be as near as possible and parallel to the trailing edge of the rudder plate. It’s orientation to the vertical is not relevant. A narrow and long tab is much more efficient than a wide and short one because the impacted area of the rudder plate is much bigger and the effort (size of the wind vane) to turn it is much less.


    Eric

  • 20 May 2021 14:48
    Reply # 10526319 on 5070195

    The most important things with trim tabs are that the length of the tab tiller has to be correct, relative to what's driving it, and the forward end of it has to be in the correct position, relative to the rudder axis. The angle of the trim tab axis is immaterial.

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
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