Galion 22 conversion

  • 15 Aug 2018 13:04
    Reply # 6574658 on 5070195
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    (From that other thread, written at 08:44:)

    I don't know Jami.

    As I wrote in my last write-up, I was surprised that my IF tacked reliably on just two panels, that is 10sqm on a 2-ton+ boat, but then she is special. What I like with this rig is that she keeps the 70 degrees peaking of the yard, all the time down to three panels.

    I have never calculated any camber-chord ratio in the two top panels; I don't think it makes sense. Instead I check what round I used to produce 8% camber in the lower panels and then I cut the top panel with either 1/4 or 1/5 the round of the lower panel. Panel two is given twice the round of panel one. On panel 3 I aim for about 6% camber.

    It isn't rocket science, you know.

    Btw, what sail area did you finally decide on for your boat, and what was the length and weight of the mast?

    Arne


  • 15 Aug 2018 12:52
    Reply # 6574649 on 5070195
    (Moved from another thread)
    Arne wrote:

    Btw, what sail area did you finally decide on for your boat, and what was the length and weight of the mast?

    Jami,
    now I found the CAD-drawings of your rig. The tallest, with AR=2.15 and SA=27.3sqm seems to have a mast height of 9.22m above wl. That is over half a metre taller than the Bermuda mast. The lower JR that I drew up, with AR=2.05, would give 25.8sqm sail area and the mast height of 8.82m,

    The original Bermuda SA is given at 18.52sqm giving a SA/disp= 14.14

    In case you run into this situation often that you have the choice between three or two panels, then your boat is probably over-rigged. I would then suggest a bold move, which I did to my first boat with JR, Malena:

    Roll up the lowest panel permanently, and thus turn your sail into a 6-panel sail of 23.4sqm with AR=1.90 (SA/disp = 17.8). Then chop off as much as you can of the mast. One panel height, P=99cm. The reduction of weight and windage by removing that lump of mast 8-9m up, would be quite helpful. At least, that was my experience with Malena


    I went for the AR 2.15 and 27.3 sqm. 

    I had no equipment to measure the mast, but according to the seller, the 130x5x6000mm has a weight of 33kg. On top of this I have about for meters of 100x4mm (with 500-600mm bury, if I remember correctly).

    Well, I haven't gone this far with my thoughts yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if I might eventually be. So far I haven't been in a situation in which the panel 7 would give me significant advantage over sailing with only 6. 

    Should I end up doing this, in my case "cutting" the sail would be a piece of cake, since I made a hinged sail with separate panels.

    On the other hand, there haven't been that many times when I would like to reef down to two panels, either. This happens only in wind strengths closing/exceeding 15 m/s.


    Last modified: 15 Aug 2018 12:57 | Anonymous member
  • 05 Aug 2018 22:37
    Reply # 6414736 on 6414048
    JamieJokinen wrote:Too much sail and oversheeting plays a big part, which I now have learned after sailing in different wnd conditions. I suppose this is no news for many of you...
    I bit my tongue and didn't say 'reef', because I've said it so many times! ;-)

    You are by no means alone: for some reason, people are always reluctant to reef - see all the racing boats sailing on their ear when with a reef in the sail they would sail more upright, and probably faster!  But you would be surprised how many people complain that the junk rig has given the boat heaps of weather helm.  They are outraged at the suggestion of reefing, but when finally persuaded to try it, discover the boat sails much more comfortably - and rarely more slowly.

    One of the things that I have noticed about all the junk rigs that I have sailed, is that if the boat isn't sailing as well as you hoped it's worth trying reducing sail going downwind and increasing sail going to windward.

    Apart from the directional stability, which as Arne says isn't always a drawback, she sound to be sailing wonderfully well.  Arne's tiller lock could make life easier and less stressful for you and would be quick to make.  His advice is generally worth listening to!!


  • 05 Aug 2018 11:28
    Reply # 6414173 on 5070195

    Thanks, Arne. I have been thinking about adding more keel/skeg, too, instead of a new rudder. It,s very likely that this will happen next winter. Instead of plywood, I might use something sturdier, but with some kind of a bolt-on system that makes it possible to remove it even by diving :)

  • 05 Aug 2018 10:55
    Reply # 6414172 on 5070195
    Anonymous member (Administrator)



    Jami.

    Lack of directional stability is not all bad on a small boat. It helps a light boat with little momentum to tack, even in difficult conditions. To get your hands free from the tiller, if just for a few seconds, I recommend fitting this simple tiller lock. With the tiller locked, the rudder becomes ‘a part of the boat’, resulting in directional stability. I use my tiller lock all the time, even on my directionally stable IF, to let me work the sheet with both hands, etc.

    If you want to go one step further, I suggest you consider a simple plywood skeg (the inboard propeller is removed, right?). I would try the deepest version. If that makes the boat too sluggish in its manoeuvres, then it is easy to shave off some of it next time it is slipped.

    The upwind performance you describe does not surprise me...

    Arne


    Last modified: 05 Aug 2018 10:57 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 05 Aug 2018 09:17
    Reply # 6414048 on 5070195

    Time for a confession and to share some things learned.

    The skipper is to blame for the most of the apparent weather helm issue. Too much sail and oversheeting plays a big part, which I now have learned after sailing in different wnd conditions. I suppose this is no news for many of you...

    However, the Galion is directionally very unstable/lively (pick up one depending on your preference between cruising and daysailing/racing) despote the longish keel, and the hull shape affects the balance very easily when heeling. No one to blame here, this is a question of the character of the boat.

    Setting aside the question of whether one (me) can live with the unstability or not, the boat sails very well. Yesterday I sailed behind an FE83 and later a J30 in moderate conditions, all tacking up in quite a narrow shiplane against the wind. It looked like we sailed just as high to the wind as the the bigger BR boats with one reef on their mainsals did. Our speed was about the same with the FE83. We of course "lost" to the J30, but with a lot less than I could dream of. I think I was the most impressed one of us all, but you should've seen the looks on the BR skippers' faces...

    (I have no interest in racing or making other people feel bad. These kind of situations are just a way to test how the converted Galion sails.)

    Last modified: 05 Aug 2018 09:33 | Anonymous member
  • 15 Jul 2018 11:27
    Reply # 6381820 on 5070195
    Just to make sure: I do like my Galion very much. It has many good qualities from large interior (standing headroom at the companionway + the space reminds me of 28' boats) to good behavior on large/ish seas and from an encapsulated keel to a draught suitable for handling also these shallow coastal waters of western Finland. The build quality is also excellent. 

    All this makes it even harder to accept the issue with directional stability/weather helm. This might indeed be entirely a quality of the hull shape, which I may have to learn to live with, try to fix with a new rudder - or (hopefully not) leave entirely by switching eventually to another boat. 

    On the other hand the whole issue would become almost irrelevant if the future wind vane would be able to control the boat nicely. I just can't help to think that it probably will not. I wish I'm wrong.

    I try to take this slowly and one step at a time, starting with adding more balance to the sail.

    (Just to satisfy my wild imagination: would it be possible to fix balance issues with a tiny (2-3 sqm), self-tacking headsail?)

    PS. This is the first and only picture of the boat and sail taken from outside of the boat (by a person on a motorsailer). A channel between islands dropped the wind to zero, which keeps the sail hanging in a less pleasing way, but one can see the whole boat and rig. I have added a small amount of balance after this picture was taken. To my eye it is very difficult to believe that there would be excessive weather helm because of the sail.

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    Last modified: 15 Jul 2018 11:52 | Anonymous member
  • 15 Jul 2018 08:27
    Reply # 6381796 on 5070195
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    First of all, let me make it clear that I think the Gallion 22 is basically good, and I have no doubt that it can be put right, after a bit tweaking. If shifting the whole sail forward to 15-17% balance is not enough (it is...), then that new rudder will do the trick, just as it did for Karlis Kalnins when he gave his Otterbelly a new rudder in JRA Magazine 74, p26.

    Boat tests:
    I have read a few boat reviews in my life, and I have no doubt that the journalists are quite nice to the manufacturers. They put little weight on, for instance, the very serious handling and safety defects caused by unbalanced hull (wedge bow, barn-door transom), combined with directionally instability (lack of any skeg or similar). The fact that these craft let go the rudder and just round up if pressed to 20° heel, is more or less accepted, even for a boat with an ‘Offshore’  or ‘Ocean’ category CE certificate.

    Btw, two mags, the PBO and Water Craft landed on my doormat recently. In both of them, the new Cornish Crabber 24, MkV, was tested. Now, that is what I call a boat! They have finally given the boat a freestanding, balanced, efficient rudder, some distance aft of a longish shallow fin (plus centreboard). All it needs to be perfect is a big, nice JR.
    A Sib-Lim off the shelf!

    Arne


    Last modified: 15 Jul 2018 08:45 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 15 Jul 2018 07:19
    Reply # 6381758 on 6381631
    Anonymous wrote:
    Arne wrote:About magazine testimonials.

    Boating journalists hardly ever butch a boat. Their magazines depend on advertising  -  and the rule is: 

    Don’t bite the hand which feeds you.”


    You're being a little bit cynical there.  When I had regular work with the yachting magazines, the rule was: "if you can't say anything nice about it, then we won't publish the boat test".  One or two production boats never did get a review ...

    Yes, yes, but what I was referring to were e.g. a PBO article from the 2000's in which they were reviewing the 60's Galion to find out if it was a usedul yacht in today's standards.


  • 15 Jul 2018 01:22
    Reply # 6381631 on 6380956
    Arne wrote:About magazine testimonials.

    Boating journalists hardly ever butch a boat. Their magazines depend on advertising  -  and the rule is: 

    Don’t bite the hand which feeds you.”


    You're being a little bit cynical there.  When I had regular work with the yachting magazines, the rule was: "if you can't say anything nice about it, then we won't publish the boat test".  One or two production boats never did get a review ...
       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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