Galion 22 conversion

  • 28 Aug 2019 21:05
    Reply # 7853958 on 5070195
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Ok, David,

    since moving the mast (even) further forward is probably no good, then a new sail, probably a high-balance sail is needed  -  or a new rudder to carry the present sail. This is actually the Chinese way of doing it.

    Arne

  • 28 Aug 2019 19:52
    Reply # 7853815 on 5070195

    I don't buy that at all, Arne. Briefly, I saw the Windex at the masthead showing a normal windward heading. The seas, the other boats, the angle of heel (10 -15 degrees, what I'd expect), the ensign and the hair blowing, all indicate to me a boat that is sailing to windward in a breeze a little over 10 knots. OK, they're not racing to windward with maximum concentration, this is a family day out, but they're not sailing badly. The tiller is even showing a little lee helm, which it wouldn't be doing if the sails were over sheeted on a reach. Jami has said that the boat sailed well under bermudan rig. The CE was in the right place, then. Now he has to get it back into the right place under JR.

  • 28 Aug 2019 18:58
    Reply # 7853649 on 5070195
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Robert, I am not so sure if that video tells the whole story. Most of the time they are sailing fairly upright. An other confusing factor is that the flying flag and helmswoman's hair indicate that the wind is on the beam, while the sails appear to be quite well sheeted in. Could it be that the sails are stalled?

    Arne

  • 28 Aug 2019 17:06
    Reply # 7853400 on 7852744
    Deleted user
    Anonymous wrote:
    Jami wrote:

    I have to admit, that building a short-chord wingsail with the (possible) help of your experiences now is a tempting option.


    I cannot believe that the Galion 22 has an unduly unbalanced hull form.

    This video of a Galion 22 sailing upwind does not indicate this hull shape generates an annoying amount of weather helm

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNVsgKgzBbo

  • 28 Aug 2019 15:00
    Reply # 7853075 on 7852777
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    David wrote:

    As I think I remember Slieve writing, about shaping his split junk sails, if you are aiming for a flat after part to the sail, you actually have to cut it a little bit concave here.

    I think Slieve is right here. Even if I cut the aft 40% of my barrel-round to a straight line, the resulting camber will still have a little bit curve in it. In other words, the camber is not a perfect linear function of the round.

    I wouldn’t worry about that. From what we have heard about the Galion’s behaviour, I cling to my suggestion of fitting the boat with...

    ..ze modder of all rudders...

    Arne



    Last modified: 28 Aug 2019 15:17 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 28 Aug 2019 11:09
    Reply # 7852799 on 5070195

    Ok, thanks.

    Hmm - my sail has one advantage. It's possible to adjust the camber/curve by adjusting (making new, that is) the length of the hinges. As you migh recall, Roger Taylor made the entire camber with them. 

    However, the hinges are now as short as possible for my 35mm battens, and they can only be lengthened. So a concave would only be obtained be lengthening at the right spots, and to answer this change, the hinges should also be lengthened at the curved forward part. This in turn would increase the camber - which wouldn't necessary be a bad idea.

    Shortening the sail doesn't sound like a reasonable idea for me. The sail has been sewn with strong webbing, and taking it all apart would probably be harder than starting anew, especially when there seems to be some ready-to-pay-something -kind of interest for the sail as it is.

    Last modified: 28 Aug 2019 11:09 | Anonymous member
  • 28 Aug 2019 10:41
    Reply # 7852777 on 5070195

    Racing sailors put a camber line on their sails. A thin coloured stripe stretching from luff to leech makes it much easier to see the shape from directly below. Blue masking tape will do as a temporary solution.

    As I think I remember Slieve writing, about shaping his split junk sails, if you are aiming for a flat after part to the sail, you actually have to cut it a little bit concave here.

  • 28 Aug 2019 10:27
    Reply # 7852761 on 5070195

    I don't know how to find out the true shape of the sail/camber, but I have drawn and cut a straight line from 50% chord to the leech.  

    The max curve is somewhere around 35-38%.

  • 28 Aug 2019 09:58
    Reply # 7852744 on 7841218
    Jami wrote:

    I have to admit, that building a short-chord wingsail with the (possible) help of your experiences now is a tempting option.


    I cannot believe that the Galion 22 has an unduly unbalanced hull form. Yes, the modern delta-shaped hulls, with their fine bows and wide shallow sterns, need to be sailed upright. But not this boat. I am convinced that you have too wide a sail, with too much area, and the camber is further aft than it should be. You don't need a bigger rudder, you don't need to move the mast, you need a better sail. Weaverbird is also fairly fine in the bow, but the helm is almost neutral when hard on the wind, even when over-pressed. Weather helm only develops on a fast reach, when the sail has moved well out from the centreline of the boat. Why? Partly because the sail is of fairly high AR, but more importantly, the after 60% of the sail is absolutely flat, there is no curvature in it at all. The curvature is all in the forward 40%. It's well known that having the camber too far aft results in more heeling and more weather helm.

    So yes, a wingsail like mine is the ideal solution, now that I'm pretty sure that I'm on top of what needs to be done to make it reliable in the long term as well as a good performer. But it's not the only solution. You could improve the situation a lot by recutting your current sail, taking some width off the leech and and flattening out the after half of the remaining area.

  • 27 Aug 2019 19:25
    Reply # 7851764 on 5070195

    Thank you all for your thoughts.

    The hull indeed is an interesting beast. Today in a calm when motoring slowly and with tilled lockwd, I tried giving a tiny bit of heel either side with my bodyweight. As it so happens, I was easily able  to steer the boat with nothing else...






    Last modified: 27 Aug 2019 19:26 | Anonymous member
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