Converting a Pelorus 8m motorsailer

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  • 22 May 2018 22:08
    Reply # 6253706 on 4789675
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Thank you David for yet again taking the trouble to give clear answer and reasons. I will pay attention to that. I think I have understood correctly: the buttresses would be placed so as to allow the U-bolts to go between them, radially, in the correct places…


  • 22 May 2018 12:53
    Reply # 6251445 on 4789675

    As the top of the tube is not round, that cuts out the possibility of a turned plug of some kind, which is what I have now. I think the welded, buttressed plate is favourite. 

    I suggest five attachments. Two at 5 and 7 o'clock for the halyard, two at 2 and 10 o'clock for the lifts, and one at 12 o'clock for a spare/flag halyard. Using U bolts through the top plate cuts out chafe on the alloy, and would be better for ocean going distances. Shackling through holes in the buttresses is OK, so long as the blocks lie far enough away from the mast not to contact it when the sail is squared off. That would bend them and cause them to bind. The halyard blocks need to rotate a little, but not too much, so the block's shackle through a U bolt is OK, and the block's shackle through another shackle with its pin through the buttress is OK. 

  • 22 May 2018 04:35
    Reply # 6250421 on 4789675
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    I've seen plenty of concrete encased ballast in fc boats but never the dust. Interesting. But thanks Ron- it is the inevitable crevice between the two dis-similar surfaces that was niggling in the back of my mind - I was supposing it shouldn't be a problem where it is up against epoxy - a bit like your fibreglass. 

    But..hmmmm...its all starting to sound like a bit of a bother, and to look like David is right (again!)

    I was keen to hear from someone who has encapsulated ballast in concrete so thanks again Ron.  


    Last modified: 22 May 2018 08:56 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 22 May 2018 02:33
    Reply # 6250340 on 4789675
    Deleted user

    I once encased my inside ballast in concrete.  It worked well.  But - I could never seem to get rid of the very fine dust that seemed to "leak" through the covering (epoxy/glass only one layer think).  I finally pulled it all out and encased ballast in resin - no problems with dust after that. The other issue was that a fine hairline crack appeared between hull and concrete - and when I pulled out the concrete there was long-term moisture in that crack ... my boat is fibreglass so not a real big issue.  The dust bothered us more. 

  • 22 May 2018 00:40
    Reply # 6250061 on 4789675
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Thanks guys, much appreciated.

    Polyester resin is a bit cheaper than epoxy here, but given the need to purchase a sufficient amount to ensure not running short, it won’t be much cheaper. I might go with polyester, but have not yet seen a reason why not to use concrete. I am going to mull for a few days.

    Here’s another one. 

    Mast head fittings for a tapered hollow aluminium mast top.

    (1) The construction

    I have trawled the fora for combined wisdom on this (what a job, especially with my slow internet speed) and found many ways, of which Arne’s most recent cup arrangement might suit me best.

    Or this even more elegant detail, which might be possible for me to have welded, since my top mast extension is not yet installed and not too unwieldy to transport.

    (See photo provided by "Deleted user", May 2016)

    I note that David T seems to prefer hanging U-bolts from the top plate, rather than what would have seemed to me to be the neater method of shackling blocks to hole drilled in the triangular buttresses.

    No doubt there is a good reason for David’s preference?

    My peculiar problem is a tapered aluminium top mast extension which seems not to be circular in section, so the direct weld (as in photo above) might be a good way, or packing with a castable resin might be the answer to fitting a Arne-type cap.

    Otherwise, (and possibly anyway) the hollow tip of the mast head should perhaps be made solid by filling with resin, if thought necessary. Any such resin casting should be done now, while the mast is in two sections and I can turn the topmast extension upside down to do it. Or welding, while the thing is still “wieldy” enough to be transportable to an engineer’s shop.

    (Annie and Arne’s webbing tangs might be just the thing for me, but I have not got started on sewing yet and maybe that method should wait until another time.)

    Any suggestions would be welcome.

    (2) The number and disposition of tangs

    Here I am completely at a loss through no prior experience of the rig. Aware that it matters, but a little confused and I just want to be told what to do here.

    I looked at a post from David T which described his disposition of tangs (3 o’clock, 6 o’clock etc) but now I can’t find it.

    My configuration is probably reversed from the normal – my mast will be offset to port.

    This is a detail I don’t want to try and work out by myself – how many tangs do I need and how should they be disposed? Thanks.


    Last modified: 22 May 2018 00:42 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 21 May 2018 19:16
    Reply # 6248032 on 4789675

    Just to add to David's comments - I followed the same advice from David to fill the space between the hull and an interior moulding under the mast step area.  It worked beautifully and although I watched it like a helicopter parent and kept putting hands on to check for heat, there was practically none.  thanks, David, in case I did not say it at the time!

    Mark

  • 21 May 2018 09:23
    Reply # 6246022 on 4789675

    Yes, it leads to the right album, but if the right photo is opened, you could link directly to that:

    http://www.junkrigassociation.org/Sys/PublicProfile/
    38026503/Photo/82521785/86529062/0?dh=0&cppr=3

    note that the URL has 'PublicProfile' in it - that's the thing to check.

    You can use the cheapest polyester resin for this job. Mixing some sand with it, to a just-pourable slurry, absorbs the exothermic heat (as does the lead), so you don't have to do it in very thin layers.

  • 21 May 2018 09:06
    Reply # 6246018 on 4789675
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    I think I got it right this time. Made a hard copy of Chris's excellent instructions from the help page. Trouble is, you can't self test, so grateful if someone would check for me if the link works this time.

    Thanks David, for your concern about trim. I did think carefully about it. I don't think it is forward far enough (about 600mm) to affect trim very much - and I did remove some trim ballast and one of those bladder tank things from the forepeak. Still, I will bow to your wisdom and keep some of it back. And maybe I should use epoxy resin anyway and do it in small stages. I was just trying to make it a bit cheaper and easier but I suppose that doesn't always pay. Thanks again.

    Last modified: 21 May 2018 11:12 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 21 May 2018 07:49
    Reply # 6245966 on 4789675

    The link doesn't work, Graeme - it's not to a photo in a public album.

    But anyway, isn't this trimming ballast, to correct fore and aft trim? If the rig moves forward, shouldn't it be moved aft? I think it's unsafe to bond it in until you have the rig in and the boat afloat.

    Tystie's lead ingot ballast was set in a resin/lead shot mix, and Ivory Gull's cast iron ingot ballast was set in a resin/sand mix.

  • 21 May 2018 03:11
    Reply # 6245786 on 4789675
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Question below.

    I’ve got these lumps of lead ballast, seven of them (calculated to each weigh about 22 kg) loose on top of what I assume to be encapsulated ballast, just around where the old mast compression post stands. In addition there are a few other little lead bricks and scraps.

    If a reader would be kind enough to look at the photograph here… (and scroll it down a little)

    Its not a very good arrangement, and I want to move them forward into the next compartment where they can fill the empty volume there, at the top of the photo, which I need to build up quite a bit anyway, to form a mast step for the new mast.

    I would like to cast them in place (after removing those skin fittings) and at the same time lock them, by way of the timber transverse floors you can see, which seem reasonably substantial.

    My question is, can anyone see any reason why I should not cast these lead blocks in place using ordinary portland cement? I would then have a flat and level surface upon which I could build up a few more layers of plywood and make an Arne-style mast step.

    This is a strip planked boat. The cavity has a good skin of glass reinforced epoxy. I am familiar with and confident with ferrocement but I have never had experience of concrete in the bilges of a timber boat, nor concrete with lead.

    Aluminium will not be in contact with the cement (for good reason, I believe.)

    Does this ring any alarm bells for anyone? Thanks.


    Last modified: 21 May 2018 08:59 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
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