SibLim update

  • 02 Feb 2020 19:49
    Reply # 8711407 on 8699792
    Arne wrote:

    It is rather that little door between the cabin and cockpit which makes me wonder. As it looks now, there will only be that little, low door. That seems to be very awkward for any but small and soft-limbed people.

    I would think that a boat like Annie’s would see quite some traffic between the cockpit and the cabin, so therefore I suggest to her that she keeps a possible Plan B in cold standby.

    Some Swedish yacht builders have got it just about right for coastal cruising: Many of their boats have glass windscreens with a sprayhood attached. That gives great protection against cold wind and spray, and the view forward is a lot better than with sprayhoods alone.

    Arne

    Arne, you are quite right.  I am small and flexible and have no problem at all with my hatch arrangement.  Tall people manage OK if they are reasonably flexible.  If they're not, well, I'm sorry - they'll just have to come down via the pram hood.  But this boat is for me and the arrangement suits me. In 20 years, if I'm still around and if I'm getting old and stiff, I can always alter it.  Butat present I can come in and out just as easily as if I had a sliding hatch.

    I'm not fond of sprayhoods with or without fixed screens.  Again, you have to remember I live in a tidal area and these hoods act as giant funnels to send the wind (and rain) down the companionway.  They also add to your windage when running in a gale (although I devoutly hope to do very little of that).  And, forgive me, I find them ugly.  I know, I know, I'm opinionated and often in a minority of one, but then Fanshi is my boat being built for an opinionated, small woman!


  • 02 Feb 2020 19:38
    Reply # 8711398 on 8699060
    Arne wrote:

    Annie,
    When seeing the cockpit and hatch layout, I start to wonder what your boat is meant for. I thought it was meant for coastal sailing and living on board in safe harbours. Now it looks as if you are mainly having ocean passage making on you mind.
    Is it only me?

    Well partly, I just can't help myself, Arne.  But in fact the pramhood is a wonderful thing for living aboard, coastal sailing or offshore work.

    • Living aboard: the tidal streams run quite strongly round here.  In the summer you want a strong through-draught; in the winter you want ventilation without the rain coming in.  A pram-hood is the ideal way of doing both of these.  It is also a gorgeous place to stand in the morning with a cup of Lapsang Souchong while you watch the day awaken.  Even when it's raining you can smell and hear the new day.
    • Coastal sailing.  I love the sun and can take a lot of it, but you can get too much of a good thing.  But when I'm coastal sailing I often want to be outside to watch the birds, the scenery and the other vessels.  From the shelter of the pramhood I have the same view as in the cockpit without being baked.  And, again, for winter sailing when the S wind is icy, it's nice to be able to shelter.
    • If I do decide to go to the islands, I will be happy to have the pramhood.

    Add to the above that I don't like sliding hatches: all the ones I have had to share a ship with have leaked.  The thought of fitting an alloy hatch +/- 1mm to the centre deck would have been enough to put me off, anyway!

    I'm not fond of washboards, either.  If you don't immediately locate them somewhere secure, as soon as you remove them they rattle and slide around in an infuriating manner.  The choice of perspex is, I trust, self-explanatory.

    I recall Jock McLeod telling us that the Blondie's ideas consisted of three, symbiotic concepts: the junk sail, wind-vane self-steering and the pramhood.  I suppose, just like the junk sail, until you have actually sailed with a pramhood, it's hard to understand just how wonderful they are.  In my case, I'm addicted to all three of the concepts.

  • 02 Feb 2020 19:24
    Reply # 8711391 on 8696991
    David wrote:
    Annie says she is going to use over-centre catches to secure her dome, and the same would apply to a flat cover. I would want these to be recessed into the frame of the aperture, to be less snaggy.

    In fact I found some almost-flush over-centre catches that hardly stick out at all - I don't think even a frock would get snagged on them..  They are placed (looking forward) at 12 o'clock, 4 o'clock and 8 o'clock, so I'm unlikely to lean against them.  I will also be putting some closed-cell foam around the hatch to make it more comfortable to lean against and this will stick out more than the catches.
  • 29 Jan 2020 21:11
    Reply # 8701231 on 4315719
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    David, you wrote about Fanshi:

    «That kind of hinge-down door doesn't suit me, and I wouldn't choose the watertight hatch kind of companionway, either, for easy coastal cruising, though I might for more serious offshore cruising.»

    So there you are, very close to my original thinking. Actually, I think you made a fine combination on Tystie, by both having a conventional companionway, plus that PJR-style pramhood fitted to the sliding hatch.

    Even Badger was modified with a small companionway, back in 1999 (Read Alan Parsons’ story in NL 41): They had to cut out a little aperture in the bulkhead anyway, to allow the new diesel to come aboard. Then followed a sliding hatch. They kept that companionway, and later, after having returned to England, they built a hard dodger with proper windows. The photo below of Robin Blain on Badger, in Stavanger 2006, shows how it looks.

    For my modest needs, I have recently gone for “a poor man’s inside steering position”: Last summer I simply made a companionway seat, which lets me sit sheltered, and in easy reach of charts, binocular and coffee, and still have a 360° view. Having no windvane, I will instead lead a couple of steering lines forward.  This lets me sit snug and warm most of the time, in contrast to when sitting at the tiller. No need for more than a sweater and a windbreaker to keep me dry and warm.
    Then it was that glass windscreen  -  not quite as easy to get right...

    Arne


    Robin on Badger in Stavanger in 2006

    May 2019: New companionway seat for Ingeborg...

    Last modified: 29 Jan 2020 23:39 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 29 Jan 2020 09:59
    Reply # 8699824 on 4315719

    Arne, sorry, I thought you were referring only to the pramhood.

    As regards the door: Annie is not so tall that it's a problem for her, and as she's said several times in her blog, she's very much enjoying having the freedom to build a boat that suits her, and her alone (having ~200,000 miles of sailing behind her, she knows pretty well by now what suits her); and we taller, wider guys will just have to put up with a low door if we are lucky enough to sail aboard Fanshi. That's the joy of building a single-handing boat for yourself: you can do whatever suits you, and everyone else can go whistle. That kind of hinge-down door doesn't suit me, and I wouldn't choose the watertight hatch kind of companionway, either, for easy coastal cruising, though I might for more serious offshore cruising.

    Last modified: 29 Jan 2020 10:02 | Anonymous member
  • 29 Jan 2020 09:30
    Reply # 8699792 on 4315719
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    David, you are right in more than one way.

    However, I have nothing against the pramhood, quite the contrary. It is rather that little door between the cabin and cockpit which makes me wonder. I used to think that the pramhood would be fitted on a sliding (or hinged) hatch to ease moving to and from the cockpit. As it looks now, there will only be that little, low door. That seems to be very awkward for any but small and soft-limbed people.
    My first boat (26’ double-ender Maggi) with a cabin (cuddy, rather) had such a low door. No problem for little me, being young and slim. However the first thing the next owner did, was to bring out the saw, and next time I met them, there was a brand new sliding hatch in place.

    I would think that a boat like Annie’s would see quite some traffic between the cockpit and the cabin, so therefore I suggest to her that she keeps a possible Plan B in cold standby.

    Some Swedish yacht builders have got it just about right for coastal cruising: Many of their boats have glass windscreens with a sprayhood attached. That gives great protection against cold wind and spray, and the view forward is a lot better than with sprayhoods alone.

    Arne


    Last modified: 30 Jan 2020 10:16 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 29 Jan 2020 07:53
    Reply # 8699724 on 4315719

    Arne, dear boy, you need to get out more ;-) There is coastal sailing. And then there is Coastal Sailing. I would count even a little trip out to Utsire as being in the latter category, and for such a passage the pramhood would earn its place on any cruising boat. Doing the kind of coastal cruising that I am doing now, I could use one on Weaverbird, but couldn't face the extra work to make one; I settled for second-best, a fixed hood that just covers the companionway and can be lowered further aft than usual to stop rain blowing in from aft.

    As well as protection when under way, the rotating pramhood makes an excellent ventilator, in hot summer weather, blowing in fresh air when turned back to front. Again, serious cruising boats ought to have one.

    And then, if Annie does make it to Fiji and Tonga, she'll be glad she went to the extra trouble.

    Last modified: 29 Jan 2020 09:13 | Anonymous member
  • 28 Jan 2020 23:35
    Reply # 8699060 on 4315719
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Annie,
    When seeing the cockpit and hatch layout, I start to wonder what your boat is meant for. I thought it was meant for coastal sailing and living on board in safe harbours. Now it looks as if you are mainly having ocean passage making on you mind.
    Is it only me?

    Arne


  • 28 Jan 2020 18:36
    Reply # 8698531 on 4315719

    Thanks for filling in the details David, I will watch Annie's design while my boat arrives.

  • 28 Jan 2020 09:01
    Reply # 8696991 on 8696297
    David wrote:

    How do you solve:

    • Security.  How do you replace it with a hard hatch locked from inside?
    PJR describes a flat disc of plywood, which can be on hinged legs as Annie is doing, if the aperture is in the deck, but this can't be done with a hood mounted on a sliding hatch. In that case it is loose but on a lanyard, and needs to be stowed below.
    • Annie you are doing a pram hood and a dome.  From what I can see on your old Badger pics the dome was on legs that flipped over and sat on top of your pram hood?  Is this what you are going to do?  How do you secure all that?
    Annie says she is going to use over-centre catches to secure her dome, and the same would apply to a flat cover. I would want these to be recessed into the frame of the aperture, to be less snaggy.
    • My Badger has a conventional sliding hatch and companionway hatch boards?  Would you consider installing the pram hood on that sliding hatch?  Could the hatch still slide w this hole in it?
    Yes, so long as the hatch doesn't slide into a garage.
    • Everyone talks about a nav station seat but I have not seen a pic of one other than the swing on the North Atlantic 29.  Would love pics/ ideas of that.  Annie again COMBING  thru my Badger manual, sorry  I meant you book, I see somewhere foot holes in the walls to climb up but what are you climbing to?  And can you control sails from sitting down?  One would think you occasionally need to get more torso over the cleats and winches when reefing etc.
    In my pramhood article, the final photo shows a seat at such a height that I could sit on it with the aperture at shoulder height to keep watch, or kneel on it with the aperture at waist height to work the rig. There is also a lower platform (the top of the motor compartment) that I could stand on with the aperture at a suitable height for working. Yes, you need to be half out of the hole to work effectively.


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