New split rig for "China Girl"

  • 20 Nov 2016 17:30
    Reply # 4402281 on 4293731
    Deleted user

    Here is a site that lists outside diameter and wall tolerances for the tubing they supply. 

    http://www.speedymetals.com/information/materialframe.htm

  • 20 Nov 2016 00:40
    Reply # 4401667 on 4400749
    Deleted user
    Rudolf van der Brug wrote:

    Chris,

    Have you considered sanding down the inner tube untill it fits more or less easily?

    Put the two together with epoxy, if it doesn’t bond it will close the clearance you made by sanding down the inner tube.

     I would try to avoid welding.

    Rudolf



    Chris

    I am using epoxy to bond metal on a daily basis. Aluminium bonds very well when clean with little surface prep using JB Weld epoxy for metals. It would easily cope with this task given the very large adhesive surface area.

    Good luck

    Nick

  • 19 Nov 2016 22:06
    Reply # 4401564 on 4293731
    Deleted user

    I think you're right, Phil - given the (supposed) exact match between the ID of oner and the OD of the other, it would not take much in the way of imperfection to interfere with the fit. I'll measure the two as accurately as I can with a vernier before proceeding.

    I think I have a method of sanding the interior of the extension tube for a few feet sufficient to remove the oxide.

    Chris

    Last modified: 19 Nov 2016 22:07 | Deleted user
  • 19 Nov 2016 22:00
    Reply # 4401561 on 4293731
    I used Simpson Marine glue for the join between the alloy tube and the wooden topmast on Fantail.  I'd done a couple of dry runs beforehand, but found that the glue actually made it easier to push the one into the other, acting as a bit of a lubricant.  Of course, the alloy is probably pretty smooth, but if you scuff it up with P40, that should help adhesion.  Anyway, best of luck, Chris, and I look forward to reading all about it in the magazine.

    All in all, it does make one appreciate the good qualities of wood!


  • 19 Nov 2016 19:03
    Reply # 4401308 on 4293731
    Deleted user

    (Edit:  I just read the last couple of posts after posting this. Yes, using epoxy when you are clear that it is going in sounds sensible. Also, West System makes a product to help epoxy bond to aluminum. )

    When I worked for a couple of years as a millwright we used to polish shafts for an easy fit with long strips emery cloth and the shaft sprayed with WD40 oil. When I was planning to convert a CP 16 I needed to slide 3.25 OD outside diameter aluminum tube inside the 3.25 inside diameter mast tube for additional strength above the partners. On saw horses I sanded the tube this way, shoe shine style, turning the tube as I went and polishing with the wd40 for a very smooth finish. I made up a sanding block for the inside of the mast as well since the inside surface of the tube can be slightly less than perfect according to a site that sells industrial tubing.

    I left the tube outdoors overnight at about 0 degrees F. and the mast in a heated garage. Ready for a struggle with the one end of the mast against a wall, protective wood blocking fitted in the tube and a sledge hammer standing by the tube slid easily in by hand and became a non removable fit. I must have sprayed it with WD40 as well but don't recall.

    With your mast if it's a bet it's one you don't want to loose. But if it did not go well and it was attempted without epoxy you might carefully cut along two or three sides to remove the extension in case of a failure. However, without glue it would require something at the top of the tube / mast joint to ensure no slippage in use.

    Last modified: 19 Nov 2016 19:13 | Deleted user
  • 19 Nov 2016 18:10
    Reply # 4401268 on 4293731
    Deleted user

    Rudolf

    I'm beginning to be convinced that this may be the best approach to try. I can rig some sort of rubberised drive spindle for my drill with an inside-out sanding belt to sand the bottom of the mast reasonably evenly.

    I wouldn't want to epoxy the whole joint for fear, if it should jam in the wrong place, it's stuck forever. I could epoxy the last foot or so, if it's gone in smoothly up to there, and I think it will be possible to sand the last foot inside the extension as well.

    Tomorrow I will accurately measure the inside and outside diameters to see how much I need to lose. Although they are nominally the same, they may not be precisely so, and I could probably do with 0.1 - 0.2mm difference in my favour.

    Cheers

    Chris

  • 19 Nov 2016 17:32
    Reply # 4401229 on 4293731

    Chris,

    I worked on aluminium cargo hatches on a live aboard barge, gluing foam and ply to them using a two part PU glue.

    Epoxy would also stick to aluminium, but you have to sand very well to take off the tough oxidation layer. You will really be able to feel the softer aluminium as the friction goes up once you sanded through the oxide. I used an orbital disc sander

    Sanding the inside of the extension tube would be very hard, but if you succeed in scratching the surface well with course sandpaper there would at least be keying of the epoxy in the scratches.

    Rudolf


  • 19 Nov 2016 11:53
    Reply # 4400763 on 4293731
    Deleted user

    Rudolf

    Thanks for your suggestion. It was one of the options I discussed with a friend. Sanding the tube by the right amount would be a lot of work, and tricky to get right. Not sure the epoxy would bond well to the inside of the extension tube, where I can't sand.

    Have you tried something like this before?

    I agree that I should avoid welding the tube if I can.

    Chris

  • 19 Nov 2016 10:34
    Reply # 4400749 on 4293731

    Chris,

    Have you considered sanding down the inner tube untill it fits more or less easily?

    Put the two together with epoxy, if it doesn’t bond it will close the clearance you made by sanding down the inner tube.

     I would try to avoid welding.

    Rudolf


  • 18 Nov 2016 22:07
    Reply # 4400049 on 4293731
    Deleted user

    David

    Thanks for reply. Yes, I lubricated the tubes, and put a shallow bevel on the leading edge of the insert. I also tried establishing a heat differential. I calculated a 40 degree differential would give me 0.134mm diameter expansion using a coefficient of 24*10^-6 (for 6082T6). Wrapped the outer in lagging felt and poured boiling water on it - trouble is, aided by the very tight fit and the lubricant, the inner responded almost as well as the outer so no differential.

    I think a slot and weld is probably the only reliable approach - getting the mast in a foot or so, then no further would be a disaster.

    Chris

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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