Good sailcloth for JR

  • 17 Dec 2017 00:25
    Reply # 5631053 on 1206989

    Thanks David, although I'm surprised that you can comment on UV damage.  I didn't think you had ever kept a sail (or even particular sail planform) on a boat long enough for UV to be an issue!

  • 17 Dec 2017 00:09
    Reply # 5631049 on 1206989

    Chafe resistance would be the biggest gain. Stitches get broken where the topping lifts rub against them, and where seams are exposed to the battens and the mast. Initial strength is not an issue, and dark colours and UV protective treatment are sufficiently effective against sunlight damage.

  • 16 Dec 2017 23:56
    Reply # 5631046 on 5630877
    David Tyler wrote:So it's the same chemical composition as Dyneema, then, which we know to be very abrasion- and UV- resistant. I suspect that Gore Tenara thread is similar. Could be worth a try, though I seem to remember coming across someone who had found it difficult to use, a long time ago.
    Yep, its like Dyneema or Spectra. I think Tenara is a different material (fluoropolymer).  The sailrite site mentions that there can be some difficulties sewing with Tenara because it is so slippery (some customers are downright irate about it on the forums).  It may be that the UHMWPE thread would have some of the same problems.  Sailrite has a video about Tenara with some tips to help make it work, it may be some of the same techniques (smaller needles and letting the thread unroll horizontally) might also help with the UHMWPE thread.

    Smaller needles would make it easier on the fabric and on the machine, but I wonder if it might lead to more bent needles?  For those of you with experience, does regular polyester (V69) last about as long as the sail fabric, or would it be worth experimenting with a more UV resistant and stronger thread?

  • 16 Dec 2017 20:00
    Reply # 5630877 on 5630868
    Darren Bos wrote:

    A while back I stumbled across UHMWPE thread.  I initially wrote it off as I'm prone to coming up with overly complicated/fancy/techy ways of doing things, when I really should just use the tried and true.  However, it does look like a good way to help reduce some forms of puckering (no stretch to thread and you can use smaller thread sizes), especially when using a domestic sewing machine.  It looks like it can be had fairly affordably here.  Although that thread is considerably stronger than V-92, I think its equivalent size would be more like V-40.  Maybe someone with experience could shed some light.  Coats Industrial does list sails amongst the uses for their UHMWPE thread.

    So it's the same chemical composition as Dyneema, then, which we know to be very abrasion- and UV- resistant. I suspect that Gore Tenara thread is similar. Could be worth a try, though I seem to remember coming across someone who had found it difficult to use, a long time ago.
    Last modified: 16 Dec 2017 20:07 | Anonymous member
  • 16 Dec 2017 19:42
    Reply # 5630868 on 1206989

    A while back I stumbled across UHMWPE thread.  I initially wrote it off as I'm prone to coming up with overly complicated/fancy/techy ways of doing things, when I really should just use the tried and true.  However, it does look like a good way to help reduce some forms of puckering (no stretch to thread and you can use smaller thread sizes), especially when using a domestic sewing machine.  It looks like it can be had fairly affordably here.  Although that thread is considerably stronger than V-92, I think its equivalent size would be more like V-40.  Maybe someone with experience could shed some light.  Coats Industrial does list sails amongst the uses for their UHMWPE thread.

  • 15 Dec 2017 19:28
    Reply # 5630022 on 5627875
    Paul Thompson wrote:
    I'm using V69 (T-90) Anefil Poly Bonded thread from American & Efird Inc with mostly an  18 needle switching to a 20 when the going gets heavy. zig-zag size is 4 to 5 mm.

    Thanks Paul.  Very helpful.  I'll play with the thinner thread on the next sail.  Certainly would increase what is on the bobbin :)  

      I've been told that V69 is plenty strong out of the box, esp if double row stitching.  Thicker thread is suppose to have a longer UV life and thus strength with age.  The sail maker was recommending 138, which is too thick for my machine and would give me very little thread on the bobbin.  

    Here is the "puckering" I am getting https://photos.app.goo.gl/0aZxnTwmmH6OVikD2.  It is basically a light waviness around the seam where the cloth does not lay totally flat.  I'm about a week away from hoisting the silly thing (the sail that is) and seeing what it looks like and how offended I'm by it.  Sure I'll find other problems, too. 
    Last modified: 15 Dec 2017 19:31 | Anonymous member
  • 14 Dec 2017 00:56
    Reply # 5627875 on 5625494
    Erik and Evi Menzel Ivey wrote:
    Paul Thompson wrote:
    Hi Erik & Evi, I'm currently making 5 sails from Weathermax 80 ranging from 100 Sq Ft to over 600 Sq Ft. I'm using a Sailrite LZ1 with zig zag and a walking foot and also a Pfaff 130 (zig zag & straight) without any puckering... I wonder if your feed dogs could be worn or the feed timing is slightly out.
    What size needle and thread do you use?  And zig zag size?
    I'm using V69 (T-90) Anefil Poly Bonded thread from American & Efird Inc with mostly an  18 needle switching to a 20 when the going gets heavy. zig-zag size is 4 to 5 mm.
  • 13 Dec 2017 09:35
    Reply # 5626398 on 1206989

    When I have a problem with puckering (usually on thin stuff like spinnaker nylon), I sew with one hand ahead of the needle and one hand behind it, tensioning out the seam as I sew. This is slow, and not convenient when sewing a long seam, but does reduce the longitudinal contraction. It does nothing for puckering across the seam, though. A better answer is to get the thread tension and stitch length right.

  • 13 Dec 2017 08:51
    Reply # 5626392 on 1206989
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Erik,

    then I suggest you try with shorter stitches.

    Arne

    Last modified: 13 Dec 2017 12:57 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 12 Dec 2017 23:07
    Reply # 5625968 on 1206989

    Arne and Annie - thanks for your advice.  I've also  been told that too much thread tension can cause puckering.  I've balanced upper and lower and made them about as loose as I feel comfortable.  If out of balance, I can see the "loop" where the upper wraps around the lower on one or the other side.  If both are too loose there isn't a real "straight" stitch,  i.e. the thread is slightly curved between each zig at the top or bottom.  I'll upload a pic to show the pucker...


    Erik

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
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