Good sailcloth for JR

  • 21 Dec 2017 21:51
    Reply # 5645569 on 1206989

    Luckily there is a local seller here in Turku area. They even ordered a full roll of yellow Outguard (from Germany, I suppose) last year, when I needed only two meters for the top panel of the Joe 17's sail.

    I decided to return the favour and buy some 25m of the same yellow fabric now for the sail of Galion 22.

  • 21 Dec 2017 12:47
    Reply # 5645019 on 1206989
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Jami

    Where do you buy that cloth?

    Arne

  • 21 Dec 2017 10:32
    Reply # 5644930 on 1206989
    In hand the 190 gms Outguard feels very, very strong. Plus it has a plentiful choice of colours :)

    The strength and other technical details can be estimated from the data sheet, if one is capable of reading it. I am not...

    Last modified: 21 Dec 2017 10:54 | Anonymous member
  • 21 Dec 2017 08:48
    Reply # 5644890 on 5644479
    Frank Schapitz wrote:

    But I found a cheap exemplar of "Make Your Own Sails by Bowker and Budd" and ordert it. Thats a good thing, thank you for that pointer!

    The 1975 revision has a section on polyester cloth, but still, the book is very dated now. 


    Jami Jokinen wrote:
    I'll be using Swela Outguard for the 25-28m2 sail I'm making for my Galion 22.

    This seems very promising! Even more because of thats a german company and the price fits our budget. Now I m just not sure if 190gsm is enough weight for a 6panel 40sqm sail ....

    It's a little light, but not much too light. The greatest stress is at the peak of a high-peaked sail, the worst bias/cyclical loading is at the throat and the most vulnerable place for flapping and fluttering is all along the leech. If 190gsm cloth is doubled at these places, I think it will be OK. Alternatively, Jami also mentions a 270gsm cloth, which is a little too heavy, but might be used for the top panel.
  • 20 Dec 2017 21:40
    Reply # 5644479 on 5623376

    Thank you all for your replies!


    David wrote:

    Conversely, 8 oz 100% cotton canvas has been making a comeback for medium weight car-camping tents, and I see that 3% shrinkage must be allowed for in this example. Other than that, so long as the cloth has been tightly woven and then proofed against rot and mildew, it will have an acceptable life. But if it is of high quality, I would have to query whether it would cost less than polyester cloth. 


    This looks not bad. A pity that nobody has experience concerning the durability!

    David wrote:

    I think the best course for amateur sailmakers is to find those outlets in your own country that sell bankrupt stock, 'ends of lines' and cloth that is graded as 'second quality' because of cosmetic defects, not because of structural defects. In the UK, one such is englishseadog on eBay.co.uk who acquired the leftovers when the makers of Haywards sailcloth ceased production. Is there anyone similar in Germany or neighbouring countries, Frank? 

    Thats a good hint! I have to dig a little bit more for remaining stock. The problem is that the internet and ebay in particular is full of cloth. Many of them lack of specification and trustworthy data about weight and material. Right now buying new cloth in Germany feels a little bit like gambling. I think it would be better to live on watersport enthusiastic islands like UK or NZ then here :)
     
    But I found a cheap exemplar of "Make Your Own Sails by Bowker and Budd" and ordert it. Thats a good thing, thank you for that pointer!



    Jami wrote:
    I'll be using Swela Outguard for the 25-28m2 sail I'm making for my Galion 22.

    This seems very promising! Even more because of thats a german company and the price fits our budget. Now I m just not sure if 190gsm is enough weight for a 6panel 40sqm sail ....


    Last modified: 21 Dec 2017 23:09 | Anonymous member
  • 17 Dec 2017 11:05
    Reply # 5631312 on 1206989

    Hah! I didn't keep Ivory Gull for more than a few years, but her original sails lasted for about twenty years. Spanish-made acrylic cloth, stitched with black thread, if I remember correctly, but whether the thread was V69 or V92, I can't tell you.

  • 17 Dec 2017 00:25
    Reply # 5631053 on 1206989

    Thanks David, although I'm surprised that you can comment on UV damage.  I didn't think you had ever kept a sail (or even particular sail planform) on a boat long enough for UV to be an issue!

  • 17 Dec 2017 00:09
    Reply # 5631049 on 1206989

    Chafe resistance would be the biggest gain. Stitches get broken where the topping lifts rub against them, and where seams are exposed to the battens and the mast. Initial strength is not an issue, and dark colours and UV protective treatment are sufficiently effective against sunlight damage.

  • 16 Dec 2017 23:56
    Reply # 5631046 on 5630877
    David Tyler wrote:So it's the same chemical composition as Dyneema, then, which we know to be very abrasion- and UV- resistant. I suspect that Gore Tenara thread is similar. Could be worth a try, though I seem to remember coming across someone who had found it difficult to use, a long time ago.
    Yep, its like Dyneema or Spectra. I think Tenara is a different material (fluoropolymer).  The sailrite site mentions that there can be some difficulties sewing with Tenara because it is so slippery (some customers are downright irate about it on the forums).  It may be that the UHMWPE thread would have some of the same problems.  Sailrite has a video about Tenara with some tips to help make it work, it may be some of the same techniques (smaller needles and letting the thread unroll horizontally) might also help with the UHMWPE thread.

    Smaller needles would make it easier on the fabric and on the machine, but I wonder if it might lead to more bent needles?  For those of you with experience, does regular polyester (V69) last about as long as the sail fabric, or would it be worth experimenting with a more UV resistant and stronger thread?

  • 16 Dec 2017 20:00
    Reply # 5630877 on 5630868
    Darren Bos wrote:

    A while back I stumbled across UHMWPE thread.  I initially wrote it off as I'm prone to coming up with overly complicated/fancy/techy ways of doing things, when I really should just use the tried and true.  However, it does look like a good way to help reduce some forms of puckering (no stretch to thread and you can use smaller thread sizes), especially when using a domestic sewing machine.  It looks like it can be had fairly affordably here.  Although that thread is considerably stronger than V-92, I think its equivalent size would be more like V-40.  Maybe someone with experience could shed some light.  Coats Industrial does list sails amongst the uses for their UHMWPE thread.

    So it's the same chemical composition as Dyneema, then, which we know to be very abrasion- and UV- resistant. I suspect that Gore Tenara thread is similar. Could be worth a try, though I seem to remember coming across someone who had found it difficult to use, a long time ago.
    Last modified: 16 Dec 2017 20:07 | Anonymous member
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