Junket Boat

  • 31 Mar 2021 14:39
    Reply # 10256337 on 10235843

    Single span for allowing more twist. You might even think about sheeting just to the clew, and tying down the reef.

  • 31 Mar 2021 14:32
    Reply # 10256326 on 10235843
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Could you clarify that please, David - I'm not sure which way you mean is "good": Is the single span good for allowing twist, or good for preventing twist?

  • 31 Mar 2021 14:17
    Reply # 10256308 on 10235843

    Yes, with a sail of this size, a 3 part sheet wouldn't be so out of place as it would with a ~2.4sqm sail.

    But, also to be considered is that an all-fanned sail gets appreciable camber even when made flat, if allowed to twist, for which the single span would be better.

  • 31 Mar 2021 13:55
    Reply # 10256253 on 10235843
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Thanks David.

    Now, excuse my ignorance, but since only two points are being sheeted, couldn't you get rid of the sheet span entirely, and just have a "conventional" sheeting system like this?

    I am trying to imagine what would happen when reefed downwards, and I can't see a problem.

    Last modified: 31 Mar 2021 14:01 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 31 Mar 2021 13:52
    Reply # 10256251 on 10235843

    My 'regular' size camping Thermarest is 20in wide and 2in thick, but there seem to be plenty of self-inflating rectangular ones around at 25in wide and 4in thick for greater comfort, since you don't have to carry it on your back.

    Everything should be in roll-top drybags anyway, so yes, I'd be inclined to fit hatches that are water resistant, not necessarily watertight, and large enough to take 20 litre drybags.

  • 31 Mar 2021 13:23
    Reply # 10256218 on 10235843
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    David (in a different thread) wrote: “… two side tanks with parallel sides that are just far enough apart to fit an air mattress of the Thermarest type in between…”

    I’ve chopped the centre thwart out of the Golden Bay and thinking about placing the side bulkheads, just sizing things etc. One of the key items will be the air mattress. There seem to be many different types here. What are the particular characteristics you are referring to, of the “Thermarest type?”

    I was thinking 2’ (610 mm) between the side bulkheads…it doesn’t leave a lot of room each side… but enough I think.

    Another question: Is it worth to consider the idea of leaving the side tanks accessible from the top, ie not 100% watertight lids, so as to provide storage for useful items which float, which can be stuffed into these (fairly narrow) spaces – such as sleeping bag in a waterproof bag, semi-inflated air mattress, that kind of thing, or even just inflated waterproof bags?

    Any comments or suggestions welcome.


    Sail plan - I wanted to try a small SJR but having second thoughts now. Breaking a small sail up into even smaller parts doesn't seem like such a good idea, and even with just a 3-lower-panel version, the mast is not far enough forward, and its too tall.

    I'm having a long hard look at Arne's Halibut rig - the plan shape would replace the existing sail plan surprisingly well. Shortest possible mast for a junk rig of a given sail area. Same mast position too. I don't know whether or not it would suit a sail of about 7 sq m.

    (Pro's and cons of boomkin vs reefing upwards also an interesting question. David's sheeting arrangement appeals, obviously).

    Last modified: 31 Mar 2021 14:02 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 30 Mar 2021 22:36
    Reply # 10254122 on 10235843

    Well, after it refusing to load the drawing of the Webb 14 in my profile, saying it was not a picture, it has downloaded here!! So now you can see the full design. Then I get a message from the website saying that posting this file is forbidden???? Can anyone tell me why this is ?

    Last modified: 30 Mar 2021 22:40 | Anonymous member
  • 29 Mar 2021 01:40
    Reply # 10246389 on 10235843
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    I was so looking forward to seeing these two design proposals fleshed out a little more, as they both look innovative, fresh and new - and  towards being better boats for junketting than the Golden Bay.

    But I can see the point, and the reasonableness of not wanting to pour creative effort into oblivion, or trying to second guess what might be some mythical "ideal boat".

    And here's another thing - we are just talking about a junket boat, meaning something approaching one-design hull with free-for-all junk rig. In fact there are plenty of second hand sail boats for sale these days, most of them with tired pointy rigs. Any of them would do at a pinch - these days few boats are individuals, they nearly always belong to some "class" or other - its just a matter of organising a little collection of the same type. It is almost wasteful to start a new build, when there are existing boats going begging. I see trailer boats, of this class or that, by the half dozen, just about every day on Trademe. Unfortunately there are so many classes it is hard to see more than one of anything on any one day - but over a six month period, you can.

    Here's an example: the very small town of Katikati (where I grew up) for some magic reason seems to have, over a period of time, built up a fleet of second-hand Farr 6000 trailer yachts - and once a week they are able to use them for class racing. It just happened because someone got the idea. There's actually six of them that live here, and only one "odd one out".

    Something like that, in one locality or region, is all it takes to have a fleet of junket boats. I'm not interested in racing - but very excited at the thought of a little fleet of identical junks (with different rigs).

    These plastic "trailer-sailers", of various brands, were wildly popular in the '70s and '80s, and second-hand ones for sale are numerous -  you sometimes see them for sale at a very cheap price - but they are probably all too big as a "second boat". I'd still look towards the car topper or very light trailer option - with the ability to kip down for the night (just). Apart from that, just about any type would do. Dave D suggested the Wayfarer - we don't have them here, but I believe they are pretty common in the UK. Again, maybe a smidgeon too big? Anyway, people will know what's around in their own locality.

    Finding we have possibly three Golden Bays here in Northland might do it, with a bit of luck. Unfortunately they were never mass-produced and the chances of finding another one are slim. Still, you've got to make do with what there is.


    I must say, Arne has succeeded in swinging the momentum back to 8'. I might be willing to build an 8-footer. I have to admit I've got too many other commitments to consider building a junket boat and sadly have to understand the reluctance of David and Arne to go beyond the concept stage of a design. (Genuine sigh..)

    Hey, can I interest anyone north of the Waikato to build a Welsford Golden Bay? Does anyone know of another one which might be for sale?

    Last modified: 29 Mar 2021 10:14 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 28 Mar 2021 13:51
    Reply # 10244030 on 10235843

    Right, Arne. So listening to myself as customer, I hear this:

    "I built the 2.75m tender for Tystie in the front room of my house, where I can keep the temperature right for epoxy. If I move the furniture out, I can manage 3.5m length, but no more. The depth of hull must be no more than 70cm to go through the front door. I can store a 3.5m boat in front of the house. The garage is available for cutting timber, but there's too much clutter to assemble a boat. For use at Ravenglass, shoal draught is essential, with board and rudder kicking up easily and without damage when (not if) they hit the muddy/sandy/stony bottom. Good seaworthiness would be needed if I were to take her along the coast to explore Duddon Mouth, Morecambe Bay or the Solway Firth. I have no vehicle, so cartopping and trailing are irrelevant. I have already designed the 'Perfect Boat' in SibLim, so why would I want to do anything other than scale it to a suitable size? Considering all these factors, what I should (very hypothetically) build is a SibLim 3.5m x 1.22m x 0.7m that at full load has a draught of 24cm and a displacement of 320kg. Built lightly from 3.6mm premium WBP B/BB plywood, sheathed with 200g glass, Diolen or Innegra cloth for impact resistance, a basic hull weight of 20 - 30kg should be achievable. Three sheets  of plywood for the hull plus one for the internal structure would cost ~£160, cloth and epoxy ~£100." 

    That's the kind of detail that I would want to hear from prospective builders.

  • 28 Mar 2021 11:43
    Reply # 10243746 on 10235843
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    I very much agree with David Ty.
    To be given ‘free hands’ makes little sense. I therefore aim at myself as the customer. Then I may later suggest ways of adjusting the boat to different needs, like stretching it with a foot, or adding beam with a few inches and then trying this or that rig, etc. But first, as said, I aim to satisfy my own needs. That’s why the 2.4m ‘Halibut’ came too look as it does, with priority on rowing.


    PS: But now, I got a new idea for a rig  -  back to the ‘drawing bord’...

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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