Junket Boat

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  • 28 Mar 2021 09:56
    Reply # 10243603 on 10235843

    A project like this really does need to be client-lead. While it's amusing to dream up these design concepts, I for one need to hear from someone who has a kind of boat in mind, the funds, the space to build, the time to devote to building, etc, already in place, and is raring to go, all that's lacking is a design. Then I would need to hear from them why none of the many good designs already available fits the brief. Only then would I know how to fit something to that brief. That's how a designer works. That's how Golden Bay, for example, came into being, as John Welford explained : ".... could I draw a cartoppable sailing flattie of graceful shape that would suit the estuary where the family holidays each summer. There was a bit of toing and froing as we set the parameters, the size and weight had to suit a compact Japanese car already loaded with four adult sized people and their gear, and yet it had to carry the same four on the water ...."

    So I don't feel inclined to do any further work on 'PreLim' for the moment.

  • 27 Mar 2021 14:43
    Reply # 10241551 on 10235843
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    You’ve got to give these things a name, David.

    What do you call a baby SibLim which is still on the drawing board?


    I don’t want to say anything yet, about these two outstanding possibilities as a junket boat. Its about time some others should have a go. Just – I have to say – fantastic!

    I am going to stay with the herring-gutted Golden Bay because we have three already, north of the Bombay Hills here. But if I had to build I’d want to build one of these two – Arne’s and David’s – I don’t yet know which, haven’t seen the lines for David’s, but both I imagine bigger, more powerful and more capable than a Golden Bay – not quite as simple – but still pretty simple to build I would think.

    David W.'s is a gem in a category of its own, IMHO - as is Dorothy.

    But don’t get too big or heavy, folks. Remember the easy transport requirement. I want to write a piece on roof racks and trailers, but not yet. Just keep in mind, a junket boat is much less attractive if people must also buy a dedicated trailer for it. If it must have a trailer, measure up a conventional little common-or-garden general-purpose trailer. Will it fit?

    Go for it you folks. I, for one, am "stoked" with what I see already!

    What do other people think?

    Last modified: 27 Mar 2021 21:25 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 26 Mar 2021 16:44
    Reply # 10237970 on 10235843

    OK, here's another "early days yet" design. It's the SibLim hull, simplified at the bow to make planking as easy as possible, and scaled to 4m x 1.22m and 300kg displacement, so that it can carry three people of 80kg. Again, a five plank design with a narrow waterline at light displacement. Should be a very slippery little sailing boat. I'll put in side tanks with a sliding thwart and an offset board case. Five sheets of 5mm plywood to build it.

    1 file
    Last modified: 26 Mar 2021 16:53 | Anonymous member
  • 26 Mar 2021 16:14
    Reply # 10237783 on 10235843
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    I guess my draft of a design for  4m dinghy suits better here.

    Now I let you have a look at a draft of a  design I hope to finish, sooner rather than later.

    The idea with it is to have a nimble sailer for 1-2 crew, but with the ability to carry up to 4 people safely. Note how the waterline beam rises with load. Cb. position can be chosen according to taste. I prefer to have a cockpit free of any cb.-trunk.

    Early days yet.


    PS: The name "4m Buddy" seems to grow onto this design...

    (full size diagram in Arne's sketches, section 5, photo31)

    Last modified: 26 Mar 2021 16:08 | Arne Kverneland (Administrator

    Last modified: 06 Jul 2023 10:34 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 26 Mar 2021 02:02
    Reply # 10236012 on 10235843

    Graeme, thanks for loading screen shots of my Webb14 design to the dinghy design thread and copying the profile and sailplan here. As soon as Mark (chair) uploads my design for the competition you will see my suggestion for a junk rig. It follows closely the profile of the balanced lug rig on both my competition entry and the Webb 14.I also have a design for an 8 foot dinghy with the same rig, so may enter that in the competition as well. 

    The dinghy I designed and built for Arcadian is also a nice dinghy and easy to build, so I may enter that in the competition as well if I can find time to draw it up.It was built from a sketch, which I no longer have, and mostly by eye. Pete Murphy, who now owns Arcadian, is still getting a lot of pleasure from her, and she has served him very well ferrying passengers around, when at the Tall Ships regatta.

  • 26 Mar 2021 00:17
    Message # 10235843
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    I would like to invite discussion about a "junket boat" - the bare minimum.

    A knockabout rowing/sailing dinghy which does not want an outboard, and which is:

    * cheap and easy to build

      or, may be available second hand, for JR conversion

    * for those who are unable or for whom it is inconvenient at the time to travel to a junket under sail.

    Ideally it would be transportable on a car top (just) or with a very light trailer, and able to accommodate an air mattress/sleeping bag/canopy arrangement (just).

    These two almost contradictory criteria intersect at about 12' (or, say, 4m).

    Too large for a tender.

    The concept is to simply gather a small local fleet of same design hulls with any sort of junk rig, provide fun, compare rigs, create opportunity for bystanders, and serve as a place to camp for the night at a summer junket.

    Here is an example:

    This is a Welsford Golden Bay which Marcus built many years ago, taught his kids to sail, did a bit of camping.... Its 12'9" (almost 4M). 

    He hasn't got it now, but he bought another one recently and put a junk rig on it and car-topped it to the "Tall Ships".

    Here it is:

    Apart from the actual race, it did more actual sailing at the event than all the other junks put together.

    I've now bought one too. Here it is:

    Its flat bottom is fine on a light, general-purpose trailer. Just needs converting, as soon as I can get a round tuit.

    Here's another one for sale locally:

    There is a very good chance this is also going to come into the JRA and get a junk rig put on it. If so: job done. A potential local "little fleet" of junket boats, hopefully with each with different types of junk rig to mess about with. No need for a new design (although that would be great) and no need even for a new build.

    Although, that would be great too, of course.

    David T has suggested the Selway Fisher Drake 13, there might be a few of them around for sale in the UK - and/or someone willing to build. Interestingly similar - yet different. Perhaps a little fleet of these might appeal to some boatless junkies in a local area in the UK - again, cheap, easy to build, easy to transport (flat bottom, don't need a proper boat trailer), capable of camping in (just.)

    David D suggested the Wayfarer - great idea. A bit big perhaps, but there must be plenty of them around in the UK, on trailers - the Wayfarer would make as good a test platform for comparing dinghy junk rigs as almost any small boat you could think of. You should follow that up, David.

     David W. put up a lovely design of his own, which would convert nicely.

    And there is no shortage of beautiful but simple little flat bottom American designs which would tick the boxes admirably.

    So, there's the idea.

    nullThis is my inspiration - Freebie - though unfortunately he is too big to be easily transportable and needs a trailer. (Try clicking on this image).

    Anyone in the NI NZ up for getting or building  a Welsford Golden Bay and making it into a junket boat?

    The real challenge comes after the gathering of a suitable junket boat "little fleet".

    The real challenge lies in designing the rig. Any dinghy rig must be capable of being assembled in a jiffy (say, 2 minutes max) and dismantled just as quickly. This is a tall order for the junk rig, which is far more suited to being left in place for instant deployment on a moored boat. But not impossible, I believe.

    I can't offer a prize, but I hope this thread, and the committee tender competition, will both lead to a new development - the practical dinghy junk rig.

    Or, should I say: the practical junk rigged dinghy.

    Last modified: 07 Jun 2022 02:44 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
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       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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