Redwing

  • 29 May 2019 02:04
    Reply # 7483965 on 644008

    A couple of shots taken by a friend.


  • 28 May 2019 23:47
    Reply # 7481780 on 7480538
    Anonymous wrote:
    Gary wrote:Annie you have access to T6 alloy, if you can afford it I would suggest you use that instead.

    No I haven't: I bent one batten quite badly and one slightly.  That's one of the reasons I don't want to go there. And we can't buy T6 here (I was lucky with Fantail).

    Without wishing to sound holier than thou, there is a Climate Crisis going on, and I'm already stomping around on a huge footprint.  Anything I can do to reduce it can only be a good thing.

    And - not being self-righteous, now - I hate the noise of them against the mast, the fact that they make it so difficult to get a hitch to grip and end up requiring hardware instead of simple holes and string.

    David, I was thinking of putting a layer of glass and epoxy on the bamboo: on the other hand, most people in NZ are only too happy to cut some down for you if you ask nicely!  I've already got mine and they are slowly turning from green to yellow in the shed, with twice as many as I need, so that I can select more carefully.

    Gary, my apologies: I've hi-jacked your thread.  And I'm so pleased to see you out sailing again after having had more issues that you'd have chosen, with Redwing.

    No apologies needed, all good info. Bamboo can be straightened with heat. The mould producing oils can be removed by heat as well. A blowtorch and a rag to wipe off the oil will do. Depending on the species splitting can be a problem...that’s why I didn’t follow through with bamboo battens.
  • 28 May 2019 22:30
    Reply # 7480538 on 7462506
    Gary wrote:Annie you have access to T6 alloy, if you can afford it I would suggest you use that instead.

    No I haven't: I bent one batten quite badly and one slightly.  That's one of the reasons I don't want to go there. And we can't buy T6 here (I was lucky with Fantail).

    Without wishing to sound holier than thou, there is a Climate Crisis going on, and I'm already stomping around on a huge footprint.  Anything I can do to reduce it can only be a good thing.

    And - not being self-righteous, now - I hate the noise of them against the mast, the fact that they make it so difficult to get a hitch to grip and end up requiring hardware instead of simple holes and string.

    David, I was thinking of putting a layer of glass and epoxy on the bamboo: on the other hand, most people in NZ are only too happy to cut some down for you if you ask nicely!  I've already got mine and they are slowly turning from green to yellow in the shed, with twice as many as I need, so that I can select more carefully.

    Gary, my apologies: I've hi-jacked your thread.  And I'm so pleased to see you out sailing again after having had more issues that you'd have chosen, with Redwing.

  • 28 May 2019 00:53
    Reply # 7462506 on 7461585
    Anonymous wrote:

    I have been considering the batten pockets on my planned sail.  For various reasons, (not in the least that they are free and readily-available) I am planning to use bamboo battens myself.  Unlike aluminium, they do not come in standard sizes nor are they  perfectly straight and they tend to be tapered.  That being so, batten pockets would have to be a pretty loose fit, which would mean some would fit better than others.

    On Badger, instead of sewing pockets, we used about half a dozen straps, which made it a lot easier to change the batten at sea (you just had to locate each strap, poke the batten through, tie it at one end and then hoist sail up far enough to tie the other end.  Much easier than trying to stretch the whole, reefed sail out.)  I was wondering whether to extrapolate this concept: make the straps each, say 50mm wide and then line them with Velcro.  This way each strap could be held snugly around the varying widths of the bamboos.  It is quite difficult to force Velcro apart - it really works by pulling one end and 'ripping' it open; if it did tend to open, a couple of stitches taken on either side would suffice.

    I'd be interested in comments.  Am I worrying too much about the bamboos being a loose fit in the batten pockets?

    Annie you have access to T6 alloy, if you can afford it I would suggest you use that instead.
  • 28 May 2019 00:32
    Reply # 7462418 on 7454733
    Anonymous wrote:

    Gary,

    I never understood why you dropped fitting batten pockets in the first place. When you have gained experience with this version of the same sail, could you write up your reasoning behind the two versions and then tell us how you feel about the change? (Are you still using battens from bamboo?)

    Personally, I have only made one junksail with tied-on battens (JRA NL 26, p.13). Compared to later sails, assembled with either amateur method A or B (using pockets), that sail was much slower to rig with battens.

    Good luck!
    Arne

    PS:
    The brilliant thing with Amateur Method B of assembling the sail along the battens, is that one doesn’t have to roll up any sail at all and pass it under the sewing machine’s arm.
    On the last two sail I have made, the very last seam I did was to add the batten pocket for the middle batten position. Even removing and replacing a battenpocket can be done without problems.



    It’s okay Arne I seriously wonder why as well.:)

    I think at the time I had some strange idea that fitting the pockets was harder than it looked. Nothing could have been harder that the way I ended up doing it. I will write up something.

    Regarding bamboo battens, I had every intention to use them but when they all split on me before i I even fitted them I decided alloy was the least trouble.

    Last modified: 28 May 2019 00:51 | Anonymous member
  • 27 May 2019 23:47
    Reply # 7462154 on 644008

    Annie,

    a few comments, first with regard to bamboo, choose ripe yellow stems as these are harder, stronger and crack less when drying out. On Arcadian I used green stems and these were gone in a couple of years. I would also advise wrapping them with 12 oz (400 gsm) fiberglass cloth set in epoxy. This will add quite a bit of strength and will protect the battens and prolong their life almost indefinitely. A double layer of 6 oz tape 6 inches wide spirally wound around with a 50% overlap does just as well and is easier to fair up after the resin sets.

    With regard to batten pockets, on Gypsy Rose I stitched the pockets on in sections, leaving a gap for the batten parrell attachment and another half way aft of that and I left the ends open. This has worked well so far and allows the batten to be slide in to the forward part of the pocket and then be backed into the aft part. Much easier than trying to thread them in from the end. I do not think that being slightly loose in the pocket has any effect on performance.

    David.

    Last modified: 27 May 2019 23:48 | Anonymous member
  • 27 May 2019 22:11
    Reply # 7461585 on 7454733

    I have been considering the batten pockets on my planned sail.  For various reasons, (not in the least that they are free and readily-available) I am planning to use bamboo battens myself.  Unlike aluminium, they do not come in standard sizes nor are they  perfectly straight and they tend to be tapered.  That being so, batten pockets would have to be a pretty loose fit, which would mean some would fit better than others.

    On Badger, instead of sewing pockets, we used about half a dozen straps, which made it a lot easier to change the batten at sea (you just had to locate each strap, poke the batten through, tie it at one end and then hoist sail up far enough to tie the other end.  Much easier than trying to stretch the whole, reefed sail out.)  I was wondering whether to extrapolate this concept: make the straps each, say 50mm wide and then line them with Velcro.  This way each strap could be held snugly around the varying widths of the bamboos.  It is quite difficult to force Velcro apart - it really works by pulling one end and 'ripping' it open; if it did tend to open, a couple of stitches taken on either side would suffice.

    I'd be interested in comments.  Am I worrying too much about the bamboos being a loose fit in the batten pockets?

  • 27 May 2019 14:20
    Reply # 7454733 on 644008
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Gary,

    I never understood why you dropped fitting batten pockets in the first place. When you have gained experience with this version of the same sail, could you write up your reasoning behind the two versions and then tell us how you feel about the change? (Are you still using battens from bamboo?)

    Personally, I have only made one junksail with tied-on battens  -  from bamboo (JRA NL 26, p.13). Compared to later sails, assembled with either amateur method A or B (using pockets), that sail was much slower to rig with battens.

    Good luck!
    Arne

    PS:
    The brilliant thing with Amateur Method B of assembling the sail along the battens, is that one doesn’t have to roll up any sail at all and pass it under the sewing machine’s arm.
    On the last two sail I have made, the very last seam I did was to add the batten pocket for the middle batten position. Even removing and replacing a battenpocket can be done without problems.



    Last modified: 28 May 2019 15:09 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 27 May 2019 01:39
    Reply # 7442524 on 7439861
    Gary Pick wrote:

    First sail after fitting the batten pockets has been very positive. I had to adjust the position of the sling point forward a few inches to get rid of the diagonal creases. I engaged the outboard in a couple of tacks but that could have been due to light wind and tide effect, other than that Redwing performed very well. Looking forward to the next sail.


    Always a great moment when a project comes together and you get to try the results.  Looks good.
  • 27 May 2019 01:38
    Reply # 7442454 on 644008

    I've been following your progress. Well done, your cambered sail looks very nice.

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
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