David Tyler wrote:

Hi John,

I've had a look through the photos, and it all seems to be going very well. That was quite a task, to fix a hole that big in the side! 

The little model of the rig looks attractive, to my eye.

One question: you've filled in the well in the bow, so that you can fit the foremast there - where will the chain locker be, and how will it drain?

I filled the well completely flush with the deck so there's no need for I solid blocked on both sides of my Sampson post and used several sheets of 3/4 ply sandwiches with glass in the bottom of the well and on the top also, the foremast sits right at the fore part of the waterline

   It to drain internally, the windlass will be between the formast and anchor roller and the chain

   Will fall below decks, there is a great place for it aft of the mast. I have 200ft of 3/8 chain also on    My secondary anchor I'll have 50 rode and line. 

Hi John,

I've had a look through the photos, and it all seems to be going very well. That was quite a task, to fix a hole that big in the side! 

The little model of the rig looks attractive, to my eye.

One question: you've filled in the well in the bow, so that you can fit the foremast there - where will the chain locker be, and how will it drain?

John

Go to your profile (view profile at top of the page) then click Member Photo Albums. Here you can create albums to which you can upload photos on a given topic.

If you want to get really clever you can link to them in your posts using the linker above (chain icon), or even paste thumbnails, linking to the original so they can be clicked and viewed full size - like this:.

Note: Any image you paste into a post like this needs to be no wider than 420 pixels, otherwise it causes your text to spill off the side of the page and be unreadable.

Chris

Hi John! I am on the West Coast of the US. I'd be happy to chat with you. I am not an expert in the use of the Junk Rig, but I have done a lot of the maths involved and would be interested in talking with you about your project. What follows is just my two cents on your situation.. please don't take it as gospel :-)

The Force 50 is a substantial boat, and seriously bluewater. It looks to me like an excellent candidate for Junk Rig conversion, as it has a full keel without much of the forefoot cutaway, good form stability, and plenty of buoyancy in the bow. And it was designed by Bill Garden... quite the pedigree.

One thing I would suggest... you do not want to rush it. Planning the rig is really, really important and doing the maths is also really, really important. You have to additionally remember that with a Junk Rig, you wont be flying a spinnaker for downwind, and you wont have a specific light airs setup, so you may want to add a bit of area to handle light airs sailing (Unless you plan on using your iron jib for that). In that case, to get something like a 16.5 SA/D you would need about 140 square meters of sail (1500 square feet) flying. But thats entirely up to you, as of course that entails larger masts, etc. 

Personally, I intend on going all the way to 20+ SA/D and just keep it reefed all the time except when I need to ghost. 

With that much sail area, even if you split between two masts, you really won't want to have a 900 square foot sail to manage if you can avoid it. So if you wanted two, it would probably have to be an equal split (like so many of our members do) or near equal. Far better would be to have three sails of something like 700, 500 and 300, or some other proportion that works with your Center of Effort, keeping the biggest sail size as small as possible, and as the central, mainsail.

Also, you probably can't keep your ketch mizzen as it is. On the Force 50 it requires a Triatic to stay firmly attached, and you can't have one of those on a Junk Rig. You will likely need to keel step it, which in your case sounds like it will have to be relocated, or a Multi Truss, tie rods and buttress installed to handle not keel stepping it. Either way needs to be free standing, so you can imagine the engineering that will need to be done to keep it from being keel stepped. 

So... keel stepping is really the only way to go, as far as I know! Assuming you don't want to involve yourself in serious engineering problems. I am going to guess that one of our more experienced members will step in to correct me on this one, if there is something I have missed.

Please do follow our more experienced member's advice and read Arne's articles. He has graciously given us some fantastic knowledge on how to achieve just what you are trying to achieve. Look through his stuff, and find the things related to calculating Center of effort, center of lateral resistance, and so on (also found in PJR). He has loads of practical advice, and if you read PJR as well, there isn't anything stopping you from doing it.

john campbell wrote:

Hoping I'm not being unrealistic in thinking I can design this on my own with the resources on hand and end up with a decent set up,

Also the aluminum or steel mast seem more practical than wood .... Bummer, because I love wooden masts,

Any other books that could help please mention

That's not unrealistic at all. PJR enables you to do just that, as all you need to know is laid out very clearly. Many people have built junk rigs using PJR as their only source of information, and now there are further resources, help and advice freely available here.

Don't write off wooden masts entirely; they are practical, especially when glass-sheathed, and you have the woodworking skills to make them. Just don't underestimate the work involved in making masts this big. Try to get a look at a copy of "The new cold-molded boatbuilding" by Reuel Parker, which has a good chapter on making large six-staved wooden masts.