hudson force 50 ketch conversion advice wanted!

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  • 14 Jul 2016 10:15
    Reply # 4132176 on 4128602
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    John,

    could I suggest that you open this page..

    http://www.junkrigassociation.org/arne 

    ..and then look up to the left of it. If you then open Chapter 3 of "The cambered panel junk rig", you may get an idea on how to fit a ketch or schooner rig.

    Arne

  • 14 Jul 2016 09:19
    Reply # 4132095 on 4131642
    john campbell wrote:

    Thanks guys,

    I'm new to this so any resource you would recommend  is very helpful.

    There isn't really a short cut - I can only suggest that you gain an understanding of the rig by getting a copy of "Practical Junk Rig", either paper or digital, and working through the rig design process that's covered in great detail in chapters 6 and 7. Then overlay that knowledge with the work that Arne, I and many others have done to improve the rig by adding camber to the sails. 
  • 14 Jul 2016 01:01
    Reply # 4131698 on 4128602
    John, if you go to About Us (the second line down on the left hand column), you will find the Site Map.  I suggest you work your way slowly and thoroughly down that, looking at all the resources that are available on the website.  You will find heaps of information to help you answer all your questions, to understand about siting the masts and to discover the advantages and disadvantages of various materials for both mast and sail, to say nothing of suppliers of such things as aluminium light poles.  Moreover, there are sail plans, photos and inspiration galore.

    It's difficult for members to help you when you present them with such a blank canvas.  As you feel you would like to have a jib on the boat, in some ways your easiest bet might be to lift a rig from one of Colvin's designs, but until you understand a little bit about CE and CLR, even this would be risky.  Colvin's boats underwater, are very different from yours.

  • 14 Jul 2016 00:22
    Reply # 4131642 on 4128602
    Deleted user

    Thanks guys,

    So much for my wishful think and yes I need approx 100 square meters

    That being said what's the best way for me to calulate where to place

    My mast and how to figure the strength needed

    Is there a wood verse steel/aluminum ratio?

    My hope is to finish the boat and mast as soon as 

    Possible and get it back in the water, then while

    I'm living on it build the sails,

    I can place the main mast in the center of the boat and then the fore mast 

    Would be close off the bow, that is unless I left the main and mizzen where they are

    I'm new to this so any resource you would recommend  is very helpful,






  • 13 Jul 2016 07:47
    Reply # 4128829 on 4128602
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    John,

    I think it sounds a bit optimistic to fit a big enough sail area to one mast on such a large vessel. Here is the link to a photo review of a junkrig rally we held in 2010. There you will find the 49'/23ton/107sqm Samson. A 23 ton vessel should need at least 100sqm sail area to  give a decent performance, and I think it is better to do it the way it is done on Samson. 

    Cheers,
    Arne

    PS: Here is the link to Samson's sailplan. the height of the main mast is about 14m/45.9ft.

    Last modified: 13 Jul 2016 08:01 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 13 Jul 2016 07:44
    Reply # 4128826 on 4128602

    Hi John,

    Sorry, this boat is way too big to consider using a single-masted junk rig, even if you take some area off the mainsail by using a headsail on the bowsprit. If you look at the Colvin-designed boats that fly a headsail, they are all two masted. You'll find the mainsail to be too big and heavy to build, to rig, to hoist and to operate once hoisted.

    I found some details of the Hudson 50 at http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=3453. The nearest boat I can think of, in terms of displacement, is Samson, in Stavanger - a two-masted schooner rig. Even with two sails, there are some challenges to be faced by a family crew.

    Practical junk rig recommends two masts for under 800 sq ft, optionally two or three masts for 800 - 1400 sq ft and three masts for over 1400 sq ft. I should imagine that the area required is somewhere close to 1400 sq ft.

    I think there are some powerful indications that a three-masted rig should be considered. You want a low rig, for the ICW; you need individually small sails, for a family crew to operate; you have space to put a mainmast further back in the boat than it is at present; you will find building very big masts to be quite a challenge, even though you are a skilled woodworker. 

    Even so, I think a two masted ketch with a headsail is just about conceivable. I don't think the mizzen placement is an insuperable problem. You could put it in a tabernacle that extends down to the keel, with a hole through the tabernacle for the propshaft, for example.

  • 13 Jul 2016 03:46
    Message # 4128602
    Deleted user

    The title pretty much says it all, I'm in the process of rebuilding and am intrigued with the idea of converting over to a jr, 

    I'm a carpenter and have considerable glass experience I've talked to a naval architect and can't afford him to design it, any and all help would be appreciated, 

    id like to keep my bowsprit and fly a small jib, also would like to just have one mast, the mizzen is presently deck stepped and the prop shaft is directly below,if need be i could relocated the main mast back into the salon 4 to 8 ft back 

    i love the idea of a wooden mast and could laminate one myself but open to all thoughts

    this will be home for my family and we hope to do a lot of coastal cruising if we happen to end up in the icw mast height would be another consideration

    thanks a lot 


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