Gaff cutter to JR sloop: ANNIE's trial sail at last

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  • 18 Jul 2018 09:36
    Reply # 6386833 on 6346955

    Hello Pol, I have been thinking about Annie kiting about at anchor.
    Our hulls don't really fit junk sails do they!
    Anyhow up till 10 years ago I sailed Trimarans. Now the way to make
    them behave at anchor is to us a bridle. That is a rope from each
    float bow (about 22 feet apart on my last one) connected to the anchor
    chain about 20 ft or so forward, thus making an equilateral  triangle.
    The chain is slacked off a bit so the ropes take some weight.
    This was a wee bit of a fuss; so most often I'd attach a rope to the
    chain with a rolling hitch then let out a good bit more chain. Then
    I'd attach the rope to one of the float bows (this time only 11ft from
    the anchor roller) and heave in with some tension to make a triangle.
    The Tri would lie a bit off the wind but without kiting.
    I know Annie isn't 22 or perhaps not even 11 feet wide but if you
    hitched the rope amidships (max beam) it may help. There must be some
    tension on the rope to make the bridle.
    Fair winds,
    Mike

  • 16 Jul 2018 09:08
    Reply # 6382737 on 6382328
    Pol wrote:

    In the meantime, there's only one complaint, and for me it is quite a significant one. ANNIE has always sailed around a fair bit when at anchor. We almost never go alongside. This tendency is of course exacerbated by the whole rig being further forward. A bit unsettling. Arne and I did talk about a tiny mizzen as a steadying sail. Flat cut. Even just a small leg'o'mutton job sheeted to a bumkin. I'm sure this would make a great difference. Should not be too hard to fix up, but not this year unless this summer goes on until November! But I'm sure Annie mentioned some kind of snubber (is that the right term?) that they had on BADGER to limit her sheering around at anchor. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I need to do something if possible before our 3 week (yes, THREE WEEK - unprecedented) cruise coming up soon. Annie if you see this - I'd be very grateful for your suggestions

    All the best, Pol.

    As I'm anchoring Weaverbird on a 5m x 10mm chain + warp, she tends to sail around a bit too. This year, I've been using a chum/angel/sentinel/kellet (it needs to be the same weight as the anchor, to have any noticeable effect) almost every time I anchor, and this slows down the sailing to and fro considerably. Idea: tie a bucket or drogue to this weight as well?
  • 16 Jul 2018 09:06
    Reply # 6382736 on 6382328
    Pol wrote:

    In the meantime, there's only one complaint, and for me it is quite a significant one. ANNIE has always sailed around a fair bit when at anchor. We almost never go alongside. This tendency is of course exacerbated by the whole rig being further forward. A bit unsettling. Arne and I did talk about a tiny mizzen as a steadying sail. Flat cut. Even just a small leg'o'mutton job sheeted to a bumkin. I'm sure this would make a great difference. Should not be too hard to fix up, but not this year unless this summer goes on until November! But I'm sure Annie mentioned some kind of snubber (is that the right term?) that they had on BADGER to limit her sheering around at anchor. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I need to do something if possible before our 3 week (yes, THREE WEEK - unprecedented) cruise coming up soon. Annie if you see this - I'd be very grateful for your suggestions

    I am womanfully resisting the temptation to say "I told you so".  But the incredible sense of relaxation sailing downwind with a junk, after years on a gaff cutter, has to be felt to be believed.

    Sheering around at anchor.  Badger could be bad for this, but being a schooner, her mast - and a big one at that - was truly in the eyes of the boat.  The best way of controlling it was to set two anchors fanned from the bow.  I noticed on Fantail, that she was beautifully docile at anchor, with the mast being so much further aft, but Bryan, who bought her from me, complained that she behaved appallingly.  However, he'd been anchored in a lot of wind, in deep water, with heaps of nylon cable out.  I tended to anchor, wherever possible in 10m or less, so that I could lie to all chain.

    So, first of all, do you lie to chain?  I'm sure, being brought up 'traditionally' you do.  In the unlikely event that you don't, buy some more chain!  Or a Chum, or its equivalent, might help.  The only other suggestion that I can come up with is to keep the centreboard and rudder down (does the rudder raise? I don't recall), which may stop her sheering about as much.  I suppose in desperation, you could set a sea anchor. (Off the bow would work - a bucket off the dinghy painter, to stop the dinghy sheering all over the place is much more effective than one over its stern.)  Ultimately, it sounds like a riding sail may be what she needs.  I hope you can calm her down and have a wonderful holiday.  Fingers crossed that the sun carries on shining for you!


  • 16 Jul 2018 08:50
    Reply # 6382725 on 6382719
    Arne wrote:
      Pol wrote:

    I am not sure why those pics are lying on their sides. It's not the orientation that they started with! Apologies.

    Pol


    I used to have the same problem. Et seems that putting a photo right doesn't seem to be stored properly in all photo programs. If I get that problem nowadays, I reopen the photo in Irfan View, then tilt the photo over, and back upright, and then store it. Then, when I upload the photo, it stays upright.

    Arne

    I think it's something to do with Wild Apricot.  I tried loading some a few weeks back and whatever I did, the damn things would insist on staying on their side.  I rotated them there and back in Irfan and in Gimp, but to no avail.  I've stopped using the Choose files option.
  • 16 Jul 2018 08:19
    Reply # 6382719 on 6382333
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    Anonymous wrote:

    I am not sure why those pics are lying on their sides. It's not the orientation that they started with! Apologies.

    Pol


    I used to have the same problem. Et seems that putting a photo right doesn't seem to be stored properly in all photo programs. If I get that problem nowadays, I reopen the photo in Irfan View, then tilt the photo over, and back upright, and then store it. Then, when I upload the photo, it stays upright.

    Arne

  • 16 Jul 2018 08:14
    Reply # 6382718 on 6346955
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Anchoring bridle

    Pol,

    Below is a sketch of an untried idea of mine. Since my waters are mostly without tidal currents, I just drew up that asymmetric version.

    In your waters I guess it is better to tie on a symmetric bridle, with one rope to each side, say leading back to the original chainplates. These will let the boat point right into the wind or current. I guess the main anchor rope or chain could take most of the loads, with the bridle lines just steadying the boat.

    What these bridle lines do is to ’lengthen’ the boat, kind of. It will be as if one is anchoring from the tip of the bowsprit  -  hopefully.

    No guarantees, but it doesn’t cost anything to try it.

    Arne


  • 16 Jul 2018 00:13
    Reply # 6382333 on 6346955

    I am not sure why those pics are lying on their sides. It's not the orientation that they started with! Apologies.

    Pol

  • 16 Jul 2018 00:01
    Reply # 6382328 on 6346955
    The 5 days of cruising were very laid-back partly due to the need for all hands to chill out and also the attraction of sausages on the sun-soaked west of Scotland beaches - not a very common occurrence!! Nevertheless ANNIE had a couple of memorable sails, one in very light breezes and the other in a F4-5. This was dead down wind heading east through the Gulf of Corryvreckan, a tidal channel much feared in these parts, at breakneck speed with four panels set. As the helm was worked hard to keep a roughly straight course in the crazy eddies and whirls of the Corryvreckan, there was no fear of sailing by the lee and the sail was as steady as a rock. No worries of weather helm either, and when we eventually lowered one panel going into Crinan Loch we didn't slow at all.

    How we marvelled at this transformation from boomed-out staysail, and gaff main with preventer from the bitts to the boom end, not forgetting the nerves: what the hell are we going to do if we have to round up in a hurry, or if it breezes up off that headland which is coming up fast?! We were doing a very constant 6 knots through the water, not something ANNIE is used to mainly due to the last point above. Nerves and the weight of crew made us more cautious usually. OK we didn't have much sea running, and it was sunny and warm, but all indications are that life on board is going to be more relaxed and therefore more FUN!

    The three attached photos illustrate what so many have said before, but I can't resist the temptation to make the point again. Chris who very kindly took pics of ANNIE on her trial sail was sailing in his very slinky HILTGUND. She is about 1.5m longer than ANNIE and, I thought, would sail circles round us. In fact, on the short windward leg of our mutual appreciation jaunt he was either being very polite or my recently raised 52 square metres were doing rather better upwind than we had both thought possible. When it came to the run back in, some time later, the pics tell all. Chris was alone, in fairness (as was I) and he said he had just come out for a quiet sail. But without spinnaker or whatever he was not moving.... Childish, I know, but it did make me take these photos!! The last one was taken with a lot of zoom on my phone camera.

    We are off again for a decent cruise soon and of course I'll report back once we have had a greater range of conditions to talk about.

    In the meantime, there's only one complaint, and for me it is quite a significant one. ANNIE has always sailed around a fair bit when at anchor. We almost never go alongside. This tendency is of course exacerbated by the whole rig being further forward. A bit unsettling. Arne and I did talk about a tiny mizzen as a steadying sail. Flat cut. Even just a small leg'o'mutton job sheeted to a bumkin. I'm sure this would make a great difference. Should not be too hard to fix up, but not this year unless this summer goes on until November! But I'm sure Annie mentioned some kind of snubber (is that the right term?) that they had on BADGER to limit her sheering around at anchor. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I need to do something if possible before our 3 week (yes, THREE WEEK - unprecedented) cruise coming up soon. Annie if you see this - I'd be very grateful for your suggestions

    All the best, Pol.

  • 15 Jul 2018 23:54
    Reply # 6382326 on 6346955
    The 5 days of cruising were very laid-back partly due to the need for all hands to chill out and also the attraction of sausages on the sun-soaked west of Scotland beaches - not a very common occurrence!! Nevertheless ANNIE had a couple of memorable sails, one in very light breezes and the other in a F4-5. This was dead down wind heading east through the Gulf of Corryvreckan, a tidal channel much feared in these parts, at breakneck speed with four panels set. As the helm was worked hard to keep a roughly straight course in the crazy eddies and whirls of the Corryvreckan, there was no fear of sailing by the lee and the sail was as steady as a rock. No worries of weather helm either, and when we eventually lowered one panel going into Crinan Loch we didn't slow at all.

    How we marvelled at this transformation from boomed-out staysail, and gaff main with preventer from the bitts to the boom end, not forgetting the nerves: what the hell are we going to do if we have to round up in a hurry, or if it breezes up off that headland which is coming up fast?! We were doing a very constant 6 knots through the water, not something ANNIE is used to mainly due to the last point above. Nerves and the weight of crew made us more cautious usually. OK we didn't have much sea running, and it was sunny and warm, but all indications are that life on board is going to be more relaxed and therefore more FUN!

    The three attached photos illustrate what so many have said before, but I can't resist the temptation to make the point again. Chris who very kindly took pics of ANNIE on her trial sail was sailing in his very slinky HILTGUND. She is about 1.5m longer than ANNIE and, I thought, would sail circles round us. In fact, on the short windward leg of our mutual appreciation jaunt he was either being very polite or my recently raised 52 square metres were doing rather better upwind than we had both thought possible. When it came to the run back in, some time later, the pics tell all. Chris was alone, in fairness (as was I) and he said he had just come out for a quiet sail. But without spinnaker or whatever he was not moving.... Childish, I know, but it did make me take these photos!! The last one was taken with a lot of zoom on my phone camera.

    We are off again for a decent cruise soon and of course I'll report back once we have had a greater range of conditions to talk about.

    In the meantime, there's only one complaint, and for me it is quite a significant one. ANNIE has always sailed around a fair bit when at anchor. We almost never go alongside. This tendency is of course exacerbated by the whole rig being further forward. A bit unsettling. Arne and I did talk about a tiny mizzen as a steadying sail. Flat cut. Even just a small leg'o'mutton job sheeted to a bumkin. I'm sure this would make a great difference. Should not be too hard to fix up, but not this year unless this summer goes on until November! But I'm sure Annie mentioned some kind of snubber (is that the right term?) that they had on BADGER to limit her sheering around at anchor. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I need to do something if possible before our 3 week (yes, THREE WEEK - unprecedented) cruise coming up soon. Annie if you see this - I'd be very grateful for your suggestions

    All the best, Pol.

  • 02 Jul 2018 10:56
    Reply # 6354500 on 6346955

    Hi All,

    Thanks so much for your responses and apologies for not getting back to you soooner.

    In fact we are just off to give the boat a proper try, so we'll have fun this week tweaking and trying your various suggestions!

    The bowsprit stays for the time being, David, as we have the opportunity in v light weather when theres a chop to fly a ghoster from it on that spare halyard.  Incidentally i took off the horrible ali track and its hardwood base and the deck is much freer around that area. All lower sheet blocks are at one point for the time being, until I fashion some kind of horse. They lead to the little samson post right at the taffrail.

    Yes, i would like to look at a mizzen, possibly even just as a steadying sail when at anchor/swinging mooring. She does yacht about a fair bit compared to our neighbours! As for balance, so far it looks very good.

    Many thanks again and yes, Annie, I look forward to a few hilarious runs by the lee!!

    Pol.

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