Help hotdog

  • 31 Oct 2020 07:27
    Reply # 9337026 on 9327660

    hi jeffrey

    the 7/32" mast should provide a strength around factor three of the righting moment – looks good to me! and 150lbs is a little less than 3% of the boat weight. this looks ok as well.

    if you need a hole in the mast to keep it in place, drill it in the lower 6-8" and you will be fine.

    ueli

  • 31 Oct 2020 01:23
    Reply # 9336741 on 9327660
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    My understanding is that the mast needs to be fixed at the heel, so that it can not rotate - and so that it can not jump out of the mast step, or even worse and punch through the bilge, due to violent pitching (as happened to David Lewis down here, many years ago).

    If you attend to that properly, and its fairly simple, how then can the mast ever move due to rolling, or even capsizing? 

    At the partner, or deck level, the mast needs lateral support - the partner/deck structure must be strong - and a detail to close the gap and prevent water leaking in such as spartite (or equivalent) - or wedges and a mast boot as described by Arne (or equivalent) - and nothing else except robustness. This also is the area where the mast needs to be at its strongest in regard to bending.

    Sometimes people have had to carefully work around a situation where holes have already been drilled in a mast tube, but you would want to think long and hard before doing it on purpose. Bolts or welds are not a "100% solution" where no fitting is called for - of all places, especially at the partners. At best they will add nothing to a mast which is already held in place perfectly well at the heel - and at worst are a quite possible cause of failure.

    With a little boat like Karl's things are a bit less critical and that sort of creativity is probably OK - but it seems to me that what you have been considering for your Contessa is the result of over-thinking and imagining too much, while ignoring an existing well-proven body of thought. 

    A Contessa with a split junk rig sounds like an exciting combination and I sure wish you were here ("down under") so we could see a match race with Zane's Pango (which sails beautifully). Your project is of great interest - best wishes and keep us informed.

    Last modified: 31 Oct 2020 05:08 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 30 Oct 2020 23:44
    Reply # 9336618 on 9327660

    Ueli!

    Thanks for the heads up. Took a little searching around but I was able to find a slightly thicker pole. So now I am looking at one 8 in diameter with a wall thickness of 7/32" or .219" or 5.56mm. this would not quite get me 3x over my righting moment, but definitely closer. I got ahold of the manufacturer, and unfortunately they don't offer any weights on the product. Just a guess, but I would say that this is going to put me over 150lbs of mast. Is this of any concern??? 


    Karl!

    I agree with your 100 % aproch. I plan on doing some rolling around and it would be really nice to see the mast still attached at the end of it all. That cuff sounds perfect. Where ya find something like that? Is it like a hose clamp?


    David!

    I would like to get away without drilling any wholes into the mast if possible. Do you think I could get away with just a mast collar? I could have my friend Tig on some wings to bolt down the mast but then I have no options to removing it. Is through-bolting it the way to go? I feel like the weld's might weekend the mass more than the bolt  holes??? Ether way, I'll keep the connection as close to the heal as possible.


    Zane!

    I have an email for you that failed to send. Turns out there is something wrong with my e mail. I'll send it via my work email... I thought that you had a carben fiber mast! Watching that thing whip and bend as awesome! Looks fast! If you can find the yield stranth of the material the mast is made of you can plug it into Arnie's formula. I got the max righting moment of the contessa 26 at 1306KpM (this is my best guess)

  • 30 Oct 2020 11:43
    Reply # 9335350 on 9335195
    Karl wrote:

    Hi Jeffrey,

    On the the ocean you should go 100 percent sure by drilling a number 8 hole through the mast and insert a SS threaded bar sticking out 2 cm on each side locked with 2 nuts directly under the partner so the weight of the mast cannot gain momentum when falling towards the ocean bottom in case of turtle. If it is only 2 or 3 cm ( appr. 1 inch ) below the partner it also stays nicely in the 15 cm deep foot. Greetings from Karl


    Sorry, Karl, but I have to say that this is absolutely the most ill-advised thing to do!!! Never, ever, make holes in an aluminium mast near deck level. A hole at the most heavily stressed area of the mast leads to premature fatigue cracking and the loss of the mast. Not just a theory, it has happened.

    Holes near the heel don't cause the same problem, so by all means tie down the mast to the mast step with brackets and screws, or something similar.

  • 30 Oct 2020 09:47
    Reply # 9335256 on 9327660

    I too have a Contessa 26

    Mast is carbon fibre, 9.3m length, 135mm ID , with a 4.7mm wall.

    I guess I could measure the OD as the mast is currently out of the boat stored at the house.

    I wonder where my mast sits in the scheme of things compared to what is being discussed here for the same model boat.  



  • 30 Oct 2020 08:27
    Reply # 9335195 on 9327660

    Hi Jeffrey,

    My strap on collar just below the mast partner is made of 2 strong half shells aluminium and like traffic signs attached to their pole have 2 screws and nuts on opposite sides which pinches the mast very hard and my 6 kg mast would stay put in case of a rollover for sure.

    On the the ocean you should go 100 percent sure by drilling a number 8 hole through the mast and insert a SS threaded bar sticking out 2 cm on each side locked with 2 nuts directly under the partner so the weight of the mast cannot gain momentum when falling towards the ocean bottom in case of turtle. If it is only 2 or 3 cm ( appr. 1 inch ) below the partner it also stays nicely in the 15 cm deep foot. Greetings from Karl


  • 30 Oct 2020 04:19
    Reply # 9335010 on 9327660

    hi jeffrey

    i meant, i would like to have it a bit stronger than your 8"-5/32" pole with a safety factor of two times the righting moment.
    feel free to go for factor two. but i'm almost sure i would have lost a (bermudan) rigg in really rough conditions the northern atlantic ocean with this factor.

    for a 'go everywhere boat' i would search for something near three times the righting moment – but i may be a bit conservative in such things…

    ueli


    Last modified: 30 Oct 2020 04:20 | Anonymous member
  • 30 Oct 2020 01:43
    Reply # 9334776 on 9327660

    Ueli!

    I am in agreement with you. I will be ordering the 8 in pole with 5/32 wall. It will be beautiful


    Karl.

    Nice argument up top there. I got plenty of strognes on the cabin ceiling and will take your advice on a deeper well for the foot. 15 cm sounds good to me! Also, how much do you trust that strap on collar? Think it would keep the mast in the boat on a roll? 


    Do y'all like using shims on the mast partner or spartite? We have some cedar shims at work that I could use... Then again, Spartite has it's advantages. How much do I need to oversize the upper mast partner for ether? 


    I'll soon be asking about rigging and the sorts. I am a rigger on land and am really excited to start in on that aspect of the project. Check out the insulation I am working on now! It has been interesting to rig up the banana shaped pieces and get them to there matting partner at just the right angle. (No lifting points were included) FUN!!!

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  • 29 Oct 2020 09:22
    Reply # 9332860 on 9327660

    Hi Jeffrey,

    I am not at all qualified to give any advise to an ocean sailor, but my opinion to the mast foot is influenced by my small coastal cruisers plan where it says the foot should be 12-15 cm deep ( more than 3 inch collar ) and should be made from a solid wood block or laminated plywood pieces glued together with epoxy. I further glued the foot with wood flour epoxy mix to the bottom of the boat and with the stern side to the A bulkhead. This is altogether yery strong and I would dare to use my boat even on the coast if it were not 450 km away. For the mast partner I had to strengthen  the deck with 3 layers of 12 mm marine plywood to fit the camber of the deck and the diameter of the hole was determined by my carbon mast size of 55 mm OD. A strap on collar is fitted directly under the deck so the mast is held down and can rotate and cannot jump out of its foot which will never happen on the lakes I sail. I hope this helps you a bit what to decide on your mast. The first picture is my mast foot and the second one is of the mast partner from the side with my wooden concoction for raising the mast and dropping it in the hole which is easy with a dressed carbon mast of 6,10 metre length and a total weight of 6,3 kg. Happy building.

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  • 29 Oct 2020 04:36
    Reply # 9332579 on 9327660

    hi jeffrey

    for crossing oceans i might even like to have a bit more than the safety factor of two times the max. righting moment (wich is what your 8"-5/32" mast offers…)

    ueli


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