Sail cloth materials 2020

  • 24 Dec 2019 22:56
    Reply # 8379039 on 8330218
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    I see little problems with that. The blue sails for my Malena and Johanna were both of some rip-stop nylon with very poor resistance against diagonal stretch. They still performed fine. Since the stress in the cloth of a junksail is so much lower than in a western sail,  the cloth may just as well be a bit stretchy. 

    Arne

    Last modified: 24 Dec 2019 23:20 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 24 Dec 2019 20:32
    Reply # 8378013 on 8330218

    I came across cheap 180 g/sqm polyester cloth. It looks great in other ways, but it seems a bit stetchy diagonally. Price 7 pounds per metre, width 150 cm.

    what kind of problem is diagonal stretching?

  • 22 Dec 2019 00:50
    Reply # 8350293 on 8330218

    I'd like to clarify something here. Top Gun 9 and Mustang while superficially are the same thing, are not the same. Mustang was a heavier Odyssey III, Top Gun 9 is a lighter Top Gun. Top Gun 9 should be  as good as Top Gun. I've not had any issue with Mustang but Top Gun 9 should be better. Since Mustang is no longer produced, it's performance is just a historical curiosity. 

    WeatherMax 80 is sensitive to chafe and if the hot knifed edge breaks down, it frays very readily. UV wise it should be good.

  • 22 Dec 2019 00:40
    Reply # 8350238 on 8342432
    Anonymous wrote:

    Paul, how do you find weathermax 60 to sew, any easier than 80?


    It's about the same.
  • 21 Dec 2019 08:51
    Reply # 8344683 on 8341613
    Paul wrote:
    Oscar wrote:

    Thanks Paul for the clarification, regular Top Gun (which Sailrite sells) does indeed seem to be 11 oz (~300 g) whereas Top Gun 9 is 9 oz (~250 g). I guess the advantage of dacron would be that it's the most well-proven fabric out there, and the most durable(?).

    Dacron durable? Yes if you cover it, otherwise its life is about three years. The most durable I know of is Top Gun, Kurt has had his for years and it's still going strong last I heard. Top Gun 9 seems pretty good as well with LC's sails 8 years old now and still no issues.

    Durability

    It does depend on what the cloth is being asked to defend itself against. Historically, polyester cloth produced specifically for sail making, made from Dupont's Dacron or ICI's Terylene (both tradenames for polyester/polyethylene terephthalate fibres) have been not too good at defending themselves against UV light, but reasonably good and durable against abrasion and diagonal stresses. Now, though, the major manufacturers (Bainbridge, Challenge, Contender, Polyant) have been putting more R and D into UV protection. Haywards Sunwing sailcloth was always UV protected, and I expect sails made from it to be going strong.

    Amongst the alternatives, Top Gun 11 stands out for proven all round durability, and Weathermax 80 is looking good so far. It's their tightly woven fibres, with little filler, but with UV-protective coatings, that are the key factors, and I'd be looking for these in alternative cloths to regular sailcloth. Odyssey is poor against cyclical loadings because it is loosely woven with a lot of filler. Mustang, too, had a lot of filler and coating, and once that is abraded, a loosely woven cloth is exposed.

    For a sail that is to be used in high UV areas, with low sailing mileage, obviously UV protection comes higher up the priority list than it does for a high mileage, low UV exposure sail, and acrylic fibre then has something to offer. But for most of us, a 100% polyester cloth with UV protection should be the cloth to choose.

    Let me just emphasise - Dacron is a fibre produced by Dupont. It is not a kind of cloth. It is the fibre from which many different kinds of cloth are produced. That would include every cloth now considered suitable for sailmaking except the acrylics (Sunbrella, etc)

    Last modified: 21 Dec 2019 09:20 | Anonymous member
  • 21 Dec 2019 02:49
    Reply # 8342432 on 8330218
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Paul, how do you find weathermax 60 to sew, any easier than 80?

    Last modified: 21 Dec 2019 02:51 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 21 Dec 2019 00:41
    Reply # 8341613 on 8336479
    Anonymous wrote:

    Thanks Paul for the clarification, regular Top Gun (which Sailrite sells) does indeed seem to be 11 oz (~300 g) whereas Top Gun 9 is 9 oz (~250 g). I guess the advantage of dacron would be that it's the most well-proven fabric out there, and the most durable(?).

    Dacron durable? Yes if you cover it, otherwise it's life is about three years. The most durable I know of to Top Gun, Kurt's has had his for years and it's still going strong last I heard. Top Gun 9 seems Pretty good as well with LC's sails 8 years old now and still no issues.
  • 20 Dec 2019 17:11
    Reply # 8338391 on 8330218

    No I didn't even consider import taxes. That rules out Sailrite altogether for EU customers then I suppose.

    Tried googling around Germany but from the little I could find Muovikum's prices are quite competitive, especially if they're prepared to offer a discount for a larger volume.

    Getting one-colored Outgard sounds weird though, for example Swela 37 has some coating on one side ("Alapuolella oleva kylläste polyuretaania") but the Outguard should be the same on both sides, at least according to the datasheet ("Important: Reversible / Wichtig: Beidseitig verwendbar!").

    Since Swela Outgard seems like the best candidate so far, once I've made a decision I'll ask them to send over some different colored samples to be sure. And then I need to decide on a hull/sail color combination - exciting!


  • 20 Dec 2019 15:57
    Reply # 8337821 on 8336479
    Oscar wrote:

    Thanks Jami, that Swela Outguard looks really good, decent amount of colors to choose from as well. Did you find the material comfortable to sew?

    Indeed I did, very easy.

    However, someone somewhere mentioned that some other colour (I had yellow) had colour only on one side, so make sure you check this. Sounds weird, though, because the yellow was through-coloured (or seemed like it). Maybe the person in question had orderd the type with fireproof coating?

    As the Outguard is made in Germany, I think it would be wise to check the price there, too.

    Regarding ordering from Sailrite: did you calculate the import tax?

    Last modified: 20 Dec 2019 15:59 | Anonymous member
  • 20 Dec 2019 12:48
    Reply # 8336479 on 8330218

    Thanks Paul for the clarification, regular Top Gun (which Sailrite sells) does indeed seem to be 11 oz (~300 g) whereas Top Gun 9 is 9 oz (~250 g). I guess the advantage of dacron would be that it's the most well-proven fabric out there, and the most durable(?).

    Thanks Jami, that Swela Outguard looks really good, decent amount of colors to choose from as well. Did you find the material comfortable to sew?

    Swela PDF datasheet here

    Price for 60 sqm would be ~€600 so roughly the same as ordering from Sailrite with their enormous shipping costs, so all other things equal I would probably order from Finland.

    Re: The Laurin 28, yeah she's a great little boat. I did a little writeup here if you're interested. And I happened to see the other day that there's an L28 for sale for only 35k SEK (~€3400), located in Stockholm. Engine is currently taken out for repairs, would've been perfect for me to just skip putting it back in and gain a ton of extra space.

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
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