Lining with closed-cell foam for floatation, insulation, and safety

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  • 08 Dec 2019 08:57
    Reply # 8212513 on 8209272

    Annie Hill wrote:

    There used to be a convention that if the window were more than one square foot (300 x 300 mm, approx) you would carry storm boards for them.  We hear so much about 'safety' and yet these practical, simple ways of making one's boat more resilient seem to have been forgotten. 

    Not by Bill Churchouse here in this video (second mention this thread).

    The large windows fit very well with this thread: but I suspect that the Richards of this world would eliminate them or reinforce them long before he got round to adding extra flotation.

    They do indeed, and they're quite high on my list of priorites, which isn't to say I have all the answers yet.  The key thing you mentioned earlier was that the windows blew outwards because of sudden pressure down the companionway.  I don't think I've heard of that before, and it's not something I'd considered. I don't know if I really need

    to consider it very much, because it's already a life-threatening mistake to have your companionway open when there's a chance of the sea breaking over your boat.  But still...

  • 08 Dec 2019 01:15
    Reply # 8209392 on 8209272
    Annie Hill wrote:


    There used to be a convention that if the window were more than one square foot (300 x 300 mm, approx) you would carry storm boards for them.  We hear so much about 'safety' and yet these practical, simple ways of making one's boat more resilient seem to have been forgotten.

    The large windows fit very well with this thread: but I suspect that the Richards of this world would eliminate them or reinforce them long before he got round to adding extra flotation.

    I think from memory those big windows on Bavarias and other similar yachts are fitted with aluminium frames, which are know for the glazing to easily pop out. I was looking yesterday a nice new Hanse yacht on which the whole very long cabin side window, (about 1 meter), could be hinged outward for ventilation. All very well for sheltered waters but I imagine very easily ripped off in serious sea conditions. That is why vessels with the small ports such as Footprints has, and your own boat Annie are far more seaworthy for any vessel heading offshore.
  • 08 Dec 2019 00:56
    Reply # 8209272 on 8206572
    David wrote:Well I have found out a bit more about this. The yacht was a 47 ft Bavaria of the deck saloon type so with very large windows on the coachroof. Wind speeds were 48 to 60 knots in the Bay of Islands on the day, and expected to be more offshore. The rescuing helicopter crew said that conditions during the rescue were extremely difficult with the seas like walls of water and they had trouble getting the survivors up to the helicopter. the rescue right . 

    How curious.  I actually heard the radio broadcast in which they said winds of 40 - 45 knots and no great difficulty about the rescue.  They dropped a liferaft right next to the people and then winched them up one at a time.  Your account sounds completely different!

    There used to be a convention that if the window were more than one square foot (300 x 300 mm, approx) you would carry storm boards for them.  We hear so much about 'safety' and yet these practical, simple ways of making one's boat more resilient seem to have been forgotten.

    The large windows fit very well with this thread: but I suspect that the Richards of this world would eliminate them or reinforce them long before he got round to adding extra flotation.

  • 07 Dec 2019 18:20
    Reply # 8206572 on 8197980
    Annie Hill wroteHardly extreme weather, David: it was gusting 40- 45 knots, the waves were 6 m and we are talking of a 47ft boat here.  Some people I know who were sailing S at the same time heard all about it on the radio from other crusing folk.  Apparently a big sea flooded the saloon (why were the washboards out?, one asks oneself) and the pressure from the inundation blew the 


    Well I have found out a bit more about this. The yacht was a 47 ft Bavaria of the deck saloon type so with very large windows on the coachroof. Wind speeds were 48 to 60 knots in the Bay of Islands on the day, and expected to be more offshore. The rescuing helicopter crew said that conditions during the rescue were extremely difficult with the seas like walls of water and they had trouble getting the survivors up to the helicopter. the rescue right .  The skipper of the yacht, who died during the incident, was a very experienced sailor who had previously done a circumnavigation. So there must of have a calamitous set of circumstances that brought about this tragedy, and certainly if even one of those large coachroof windows was lost there would be a very large opening for water to rush in. I imagine it would be quite a technical challenge to make a yacht of that size unsinkable, so it just reinforces that the best way to avoid sinking is to keep the water out through appropriate design of the vessel and any hull openings.
    Last modified: 07 Dec 2019 19:11 | Anonymous member
  • 07 Dec 2019 09:18
    Reply # 8202952 on 8157201
    Mark Thomasson wrote:Generally, I agree that good bulkheads are a must. 
    I see from your thumbnail that you have a Newbridge Coromandel that's even the same colour as Tammy Norie.  Where would you consider adding or modifying bulkheads for this purpose?
  • 07 Dec 2019 03:02
    Reply # 8200425 on 8148577

    David, most of us will never get to see an official report, and, as you say, the media is pretty useless at this sort of thing. In your position, I suppose you get regular "notices to mariners" or some such thing - I would be grateful if you could share the information on this forum, if and when an official report comes out. Thanks.

  • 07 Dec 2019 00:47
    Reply # 8199599 on 8197980
    Annie Hill wroteHardly extreme weather, David: it was gusting 40- 45 knots, the waves were 6 m and we are talking of a 47ft boat here.  Some people I know who were sailing S at the same time heard all about it on the radio from other crusing folk.  Apparently a big sea flooded the saloon (why were the washboards out?, one asks oneself) and the pressure from the inundation blew the windows out.  Cockpit lockers are a possible villain here, but most modern Beneteaus (which is what this boat was) have double cabins under the cockpit.  Apparently the boat went down so quickly they didn't have time to do anything and the liferaft went off without them.  One person had a personal EPIRB and this is what they rescuers homed in on.  The chopper pilot referred to it as a quite straightforward rescue and the wind speeds/sea state I quote are from this, not that long after the boat foundered.

    It is interesting that the European bureaucrats would consider this boat to be safe to voyage around the world, while my little Fanshi should never be taken more than 5 miles offshore.  I don't think my windows would blow out should the boat be inundated.  Nor, I suspect, would she instantly sink.

    Ah, I wondered. As you say not extreme conditions at all, never trust the media! I still wonder how all the windows could blow out and the attachment method because on any ocean going vessel the windows should be fairly fail safe in their attachment. It will be interesting to read the eventual investigation report and find out the circumstances surrounding this, and what lessons in seamanship and preparation can be learned.
    Last modified: 07 Dec 2019 00:50 | Anonymous member
  • 06 Dec 2019 20:42
    Reply # 8197980 on 8162358
    David wrote:

    The other not so good example is a very recent yacht sinking off our northern New Zealand coastline a couple of months ago with the loss of one life. A yacht was returning from Fiji to New Zealand and got caught up in some extreme weather such as we have in New Zealand during the spring. Based on media reports the yacht was overwhelmed by very large waves and lost some or all of the cabin windows. the crew were unable to keep up with water ingress and the yacht sank. I will be very interested to read the eventual reports and find out the full story. It is hard to imagine how any well built offshore yacht could suffer such a loss of watertight integrity so it will be interesting to find out the size of the windows and how they were attached.

    Hardly extreme weather, David: it was gusting 40- 45 knots, the waves were 6 m and we are talking of a 47ft boat here.  Some people I know who were sailing S at the same time heard all about it on the radio from other crusing folk.  Apparently a big sea flooded the saloon (why were the washboards out?, one asks oneself) and the pressure from the inundation blew the windows out.  Cockpit lockers are a possible villain here, but most modern Beneteaus (which is what this boat was) have double cabins under the cockpit.  Apparently the boat went down so quickly they didn't have time to do anything and the liferaft went off without them.  One person had a personal EPIRB and this is what they rescuers homed in on.  The chopper pilot referred to it as a quite straightforward rescue and the wind speeds/sea state I quote are from this, not that long after the boat foundered.

    It is interesting that the European bureaucrats would consider this boat to be safe to voyage around the world, while my little Fanshi should never be taken more than 5 miles offshore.  I don't think my windows would blow out should the boat be inundated.  Nor, I suspect, would she instantly sink.

  • 06 Dec 2019 15:56
    Reply # 8196089 on 8176506
    Anonymous wrote:
    Anonymous wrote:

    Years ago I bought an 80% efficient furnace for my home...... It used a plastic pipe exhaust, and an aneroid sensor to turn the gas on once it sensed that the exhaust fan was functioning.   I was disgusted with the flue temp, which was around 150F, and seemed like a lot of wasted energy.

    150F is quite good, most heat driven flues require 200F to 250F and are less than 80% of course. The other half of a gas driven heater that is not measured and not a part of the efficiency rating, is the amount of heat lost through the flue when the unit is not running. A non-pilotlight operation with a exhaust flap can help but does not help the efficiency rating and so few manufactures bother.

      As a result I took an aluminum car radiatior, and installed it after the primary heat exchanger, in a way that the fan drew the air through it also, but I angled it in such a way that the condensed water could drain out, and I attached a drain line to it.   The result was that the temp at the stack now runs about 10 deg above room temperature.   I'd call that very efficient..... and used it for over 20 years in that configuration.   It's amazing how much water condenses out.

    The furnace manufacture would not be allowed to do this. their lawyers and insurance and maybe regulations in some of the places they want to sell, won't let them.

         I prefer unvented catalytic heaters, and have switched over to them, as humidity is something I need in this climate in winter.   100% efficient, they wouldn't of course work on a boat.


    How do you supply them with air for burning?

     The catalytic heater simply draws air from the room for combustion, and exausts CO2 and water vapor into the room.  It would  not be ideal for a very tight house, but it works where live. It's simple almost to the point of being primitive, but the real advantage as far as I'm concerned is that it is radiant, and I have it mounted in such a way as to point toward me (on a hinge system).  This allows me to maintain a far cooler room temp than most folks would tolerate.  I prefer a gradient, rather than the "normal" 100% uniform air temperature.  For example I absolutely hate modern vehicle climate control.... I want warm feet, and cool air around my face.... I haven't had a car that allowed me to do this for many years..... guess I'm not "normal"

                                                H.W.

  • 05 Dec 2019 10:17
    Reply # 8183440 on 8172600
    Jami Jokinen wrote:
    Here's a picture of Bill Churchouse's stove on Belgean, a Westerly Nomad (22') and Jester Challenge boat.  If he can do it, perhaps so can I.

    Looks interesting, any more info?

    I'm sorry, but I visited Bill aboard Belgean when I was quite unwell.  My disability makes my memory very poor sometimes, and I did not take notes.  The main things I remember are:

    1. Westerly Nomad.  Lovely.  Might be nice with a junk rig.
    2. Bill Churchouse.  Top bloke.
    You too can visit Belgean in this video.
    Last modified: 05 Dec 2019 10:18 | Anonymous member
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