Anonymous wrote:

Howard,

correct the big downside of the older cats is their narrow width, so have to be sailed with care.  The Maldives 32 is close to perfect, though about 3x the cost of an Iroquois (in UK). That adds up to a couple of years of sailing.  Also remember that once converted it will be a rare beast and not an easy resale. 

I did meet up with Pete just before Oryx was finished, she is pretty much the top of my perfect list, though a standard length KD 860 would suit me better.  He spent less than £20k on materials back then, and took about 3 man/ woman years. I don’t think I would have the patience for that.

Mast strength, I would go for a similar section to a mono.  The stress when running are I guess similar.  With a choice between a snapped mast and an inverted boat with an intact mast I know which I would choose!  If you trawl back through the JRA mags you will find an article on a Tiki 38? with mast made from a series of decreasing diameter alloy tubes, the first iteration bent, they removed the top section and added the next size up to the lower section.

Again I agree with pretty much everything you say........ I'd like to spend my money on sailing, rather than on the boat............   I'd also like a boat that I'm comfortable with.  Would you want to sail across the Bay of Biscay in one, or around the Cape of Good Hope where the Agulhas Current meets the  winds from the Southern Ocean?  Or sail across the US East Coast Gulf Stream, sail the Tasman Sea or try to sneak between Minnerva Reefs and the Bay of Islands between storms in one?  Even locally off the  West Coast of the US, conditions famously deteriorate into utter violence in short order, and sailors who have sailed the world often say that they encountered the worst weather here.   Personally I would be far more comfortable in a Wharram in terms of safety, than an Iroquis for the kind of sailing I want to do, despite hating the narrow culvert cabin spaces, and disliking the flexible lashed beam concept.   The Tiki 38 is about the minimum with reasonable living space, and the ability to take a bridge deck pod, but it is a big boat... more than I really want.   But that's a mixed blessing.  There are better solutions, and ongoing costs soon overtake initial purchase cost.   The Maldives 32 sits right in the "sweet spot" for me.   I suspect that with a well thought out and executed junk rig conversion, and record for a lot of sea miles, the uniqueness would not actually be a liability for resale.  In any case it is my hope that my remains will drift with my derelict boat to be dashed upon the rocks of some remote shore someday........ Better that than to end my days in diapers in some old folks home!!

 Oryx rates high in many respects........ However I do not like the bridge deck cabin with it's narrow saloon and zero forward visibility, which Bernd designed that way to allow for forward berths on the bridge deck.  The stock 8.6M is two short to allow for aft berths (where they should be and where they are on Oryx with it's 10M length).  The bulkhead at the forward end of the saloon is the primary structural beam which works in combination with a structural settee, and structural furnishings in the hulls, the beam forward of the berths which along with the actual leading edge of the bridge deck forms a box beam, and the divider between the two berths, in an engineering tour de force to provide a very strong mast step in the original design.   This integrated structural design makes the boat difficult to modify without compromising structure.   A beam like Richard Woods uses for a mast beam could substitute for this and allow for the bulkhead to be removed creating a decent bridge deck cabin / saloon, but without adding that extra length aft berths are just not realistic.  There simply is not enough room.  

     Pete did an absolutely beautiful job on Oryx.... I have saved many photos of various details.  His addition of a chine at bridge deck level hugely improved the interior space, and the bubble helped, allowing a stand up view around to mitigate the blind interior.   Here is a photo of a stock KD 860 that has been "chopped" forward of the main bulkhead and forward viewing windows added.. It eliminates even sitting headroom in the forward transverse berths......... I also have some drawings with dimensions from the study plans, which I would share privately only if you are interested in seeing the actual dimensions of these spaces.   Just to give you an idea, from the bow, the forward berths begin and station 3415, and end at 4770.... 1.055 meters front to back.  the saloon begins at 4770, and ends at 6300 (1.53M), which is also the galley length, and it has steps down into it .   As you can see everything is very tight..  The aft spaces are even tighter.   That exta 1.4M Pete added made a huge difference.    I'd love to see the drawings to see where it is distributed, but from the photos it was added to the berths, saloon, and aft spaces judiciously to greatly improve the boat for voyaging.

 I added a couple more photos... one being a cut away drawing of the stock KD 860, and the other showing the added chine on Oryx.

                                                           H.W.

If a tabernacle mount for the mast is being built in any case, there is nothing that says the support must go straight down. At least one of the tabernacles Pete Hill built (for someone else) has the support offset to one side. While this may not be enough in this case (the support lined up with one side of the tabernacle), perhaps an upside down "Y" shaped tabernacle would work well with the two sides of the "Y" on either side of the cabin door. Wood would not work in this case (unless the tree grew just right), so aluminum or stainless steel would be materials to look at for an aluminum or wood mast (cost seems to be woven through this thread so more esoteric materials are probably out).

I realize now that you did not specifically say you would use tabernacles but mentioned them in response to someone else who has. However, lamp posts and some masts have used a flange type fastening for joining a pole to a mount that has stood hurricane force winds, so even a permanently mounted mast should be possible with a "Y" support.

So far as that goes, there is no reason the mast in a cat hull should be centre rather than offset. Build the mast step up high enough that the mast can be well supported to either the outside or inside of the cabin doorway. (I think I would go inside) It would probably want to be the same on both sides for a biplane rig.

  Len:

       I have to agree with everything you wrote here............ In fact when I was looking at trimarans, Arne suggested exactly this placement to clear a critical doorway.    I have no obsession with having things centered or symmetrical. 

      I am not comfortable with flange mounts, as they are typically welded, and a weld is just a place to break.......... I say that being a skilled welder with a lifetime of experience.  My Hiab knuckle boom crane has a stub post that sticks up inside a vertical tube that supports the boom....... There must be intelligent people in the UK ;-).... the stub is pressed into a tight fitting outer tube, which is welded top and bottom into the steel tank that forms the base, and the stub itself is welded ONLY on the bottom side........ It is subject to a lot of bending load, and if it had been welded on top, it would have failed years ago.  The other day I was handling a diesel engine and transmission at full extension, weighing in excess of a ton.  That stub is as I recall probably about 5" OD, with a 2" bore, and perhaps a meter long, and the load was 22' outboard.   I've been using it this way for about 25 years....... every time I use it, I act as if it is going to snap...... Never putting myself in harm's way........... that's why I've worked on machinery all my adult life and never been serious injured... just cuts and bruises, and a few stitches.

    I like the idea of a buried mast or stub, solid at the step, and bedded in something that has a bit of give at the top such that there is no sharp end to the support at the top of the partner.  My favorite product for this kind of structure is Devcon Flexane 80, pourable urethane rubber, which is available with a modifier to change the durometer... make it stiffer.  Things that can't give, break, unless they are grossly overstrength. 

                                               H.W.

Howard, on the  FP Maldives 32, from the photographs it looks as if you could position the masts offset towards the centerline of the boat so that they would clear the doorway anywhere from the bulkhead to the aft edge of the single berth. The lower step may be a bit of a challenge but it all looks possible. If you used a wooden plug extension for the aluminium mast tube at the base, this could be tapered and shaped to the hull and make the step fairly easy to make.

All the best with the project, David.

Anonymous wrote:

Howard,

I am much in the same mind, dream of esoteric solutions like a proa, but the reality is that if you wish to enjoy sailing more than years of building you need to convert an existing boat.  What is available will never be perfect,  it will probably even be glass fibre.  I have looked a couple of Iroquois, they are really a bit big for one person, I would say the upper limit.

Once you have decided on the boat, then consider the rig.  A side by side twin mast has the great advantage that it is still within the capability on one person to raise / lower the mast.

Alleda is an example of a Mk 1, with simple flat sails.  I believe she has sailed around the world, though prior to having the JR fitted.  (I am sure a more elegant solution could be done for the mast support (apologies to the builder)

Mark:

     The  Gemini doesn't really fill the bill for what I want to do.  Probably one of the best of it's era,  it is still far too narrow with a beam of only 4.11M,  it should be over 5 for that length to achieve what I would consider acceptable stability.   Decent length beam rations begin with the beam at half the length.    The Gemini's centerboards make great sense.... folding aft if they strike anything, rather than tearing a daggerboard case loose in the hull or snapping a dagger off.  Mini keels do not offer the pointing ability of daggers or centerboards.  They unfortunately  had weak cases, and have been known to fail catastrophically, and there are a few other structural issues.... all of which can be addressed if one know about them and is willing.   The beam of course cannot.   At least they didn't push the deck all the way forward as so many cats of that era did..... which is reputed to exacerbate pounding issues, and supposedly can cause "submarining" if you surf into the back of a wave.     

     The bracing on the tabernacles on Alleda is as you say not exactly elegant, but when one looks at what it is called upon to do, that large tube probably makes sense. There is no trussing to keep things square.  It appears to use the cabin top as part of the structure, but is there enough strength there to be of value?? 

      In any case I saved those photos for future reference........ very interesting.  You do what you have to do even  if it is not quite what you want.    

      There is a Wharram....tiki 38 I think.... down in Oz or Nz with two strutted tabernacles that I've seen photos of.... but unfortunately didn't save, but of course that is a very wide boat, and the struts connect to the cross beam, and forward to the next beam.    I should have learned by now to save everything........ when I want it I can't find it  ;-(

      Kohler and Woods,  Simpson, and a number of others  have done a good job with small cat design.  Unfortunately the factories have gravitated to million dollar condocats, so we who want something smaller are pretty much relegated to the owner built market.... Which is not all bad.  I have nothing against ply/epoxy construction........done right.

      The FP Maldives 32 is about the only factory built boat that meets my criteria to any real extent.   It is well designed for a boat it's size, and has the benefit of foam core above the WL, which is an asset in terms of condensation and temp control..... liveability.   The biplane mast of course rears it's ugly head again.... The only location that makes sense is about in line with the original mast, and stuffing an 8" dia tube down through the narrow hulls right at a doorway through into a forward single berth, would severely restrict access, but in my case I could live with external primary access, and there are other options.  One I've thought of more than once is a high strength thick wall smaller diameter piece of 7075 tubing down through the partner to the step, and projecting up inside the actual mast, combined perhaps with some strutting.  Lateral struts could go to the original step, and longitudinal ones to some forward or aft strong point. The mast or tube I mentioned would go down right where the roll of toilet paper is in the first photo (port side looking forward).  On the stbd side (second photo) that would be where the shelves connect to the bulkhead that divides the forward berth from the chart room.   The topside shows a derth of obvious strong points, the mast step being the only obvious one.  There appears to be a pretty substantial bulkhead at the aft end of the bridge deck cabin where you enter the aft berths... third photo.  

      There usually is a solution to this sort of problem.  In this case a high strength stub inside the mast.........and perhaps a couple of struts each.

      This is a boat that is fairly readily available, and not all that popular as you cannot stand up without the pop top open, and too small...everybody wants to have a crew of 6, but the low profile streamlined shape suggests better than average performance upwind due to reduced windage....... The shape is reminicent of the  Iriquois without the "fanny pack".  For me the galley up would involve some rethinking so I could sleep in a recliner right there facing forward with windows all around, two steps from the cockpit, and of course with the pop top open when in a warm climate...  it's all doable....it all takes time and money.  

                                             H.W.

Howard, in trying to be short and sweet with answers, I have omitted to answer a question..... probably more than one.

So without wanting to get into a historical treatise, will venture to explain that the rig on the model, which is modelled on the Fangatau canoe held in the Bishop museum Hawaii.It has Oceanic sprit sails rather than crab claws, because there is no yard, but has  spars dangling from the masthead, that have the sail hoisted from the throat, at the leading corner of the head.

Artistic licence has led me to invent an additional spar, which you can see poking across my wife's TV screen in the background.

This spar is hollow and is lifted by a line running through it.

Assuming this happens, it canl be used if I end up opting for Western type loose footed spritsl's, which might eventuate if curved sprit-booms are not ready and the urge to go sailing takes over.

Research into the original craft had me dreaming that sails made from pandanus mat would be great to trial sail --  shunting as per the original craft, by dragging the tack corner oft he leading sail forward, which pulls the after one along in tandem with it -- understand that the tack or bottom ends of the dangling  leading edge spars are connected by a rope.