Educational Graphics Proposal

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  • 22 Feb 2021 20:47
    Reply # 10126068 on 4969130

    Im for video instruction of junk rig, be it 3D , or standard Youtube fare - from sail design and making, through to using the rig.  (Zane 22 Feb)

    Videos are always a good way to communicate, entertain, inform, promote etc.

    However, I just want to make clear, I was referring specifically to the 3-D introductory clip which is current on the website, which I think has been useful and helpful for some people.

    When it comes to drawing up a Johanna-type sail and matching it to a hull – and the making of a sail -  Arne’s notes are one of the outstanding resources which the JRA has to offer. They are so clear and confidence-building that they stand on their own merit and I doubt the need for video, 3-D or otherwise.

    Its just that first step – that first inkling of understanding…. The shift from Bermudan rig to Junk rig is a major paradigm change. Once accepted, it is easy to forget how alien the rig seems to someone who might have a vague interest, but who has never seen it in action.

    This is where I think the 3-D presentation shines a light.

    Last modified: 26 Feb 2021 03:35 | Anonymous member
  • 22 Feb 2021 04:37
    Reply # 10123643 on 4969130

    Graeme, Arne , all - i think we are actually all in somewhat agreement, it is just the details of how to go about this are perhaps getting lost in translation, and we might be confusing each other.

    Im for video instruction of junk rig, be it 3D , or standard Youtube fare - from sail design and making, through to using the rig.

    I think what I might do is take video when my rig goes back on later this year. It is a standard Haslar/McLeod rig , with Paul's special touches.

    I also think an interview of Mr Oracle himself- Paul Thompson, maybe in order.
    I'm sure Paul will be more than glad to be interviewed when time permits later this year, on his sail making ethos for junk rigs - fabric type, techniques etc.  We might even get a few shots of Skatty contributing his feline follicles to the situation.

    Good for business, and good for promoting junk rig.

    I actually attempted something of this sort, with Alan on Zebedee at last years tallships.
    But my videoing skills were lacking that day, and it is not a very good video due to my own inadequacies -- it was a spur of the moment thing, and didnt help that I wasnt quite used to using my fancy new iPhone 11 to take videos.
    But, as sort of my first interview of a junkie, I can only improve:

    Maybe you can be one of my subjects too one day, Mr Kenyon.  Your little split rig is intriguing on that trailer sailor.  

    Anyway - give me some time as I have other things going on at the moment, a refit of my boat being one of them - but while no expert on JR myself, I have no problem videoing more experienced junkies when the planets align and all parties involved can put some time aside to putting a decent quality video together.


    Last modified: 22 Feb 2021 04:44 | Anonymous member
  • 21 Feb 2021 20:08
    Reply # 10122265 on 4969130

    Btw. what should the reason for making the 3-D presentation be if not to help people (design and) make their own sails? (Arne, 18 Feb)

    I can answer that very simply Arne: The current 3-D graphic presentation has nothing whatsoever to do with helping people to design and make their own sails. That is a long way further down the track. The presentation is for people who know little or nothing about the junk rig, who may perhaps have heard that it has some advantages especially in the area of reefing and handing, and perhaps some interest, but who have little or no idea how it works. PJR would not have much meaning; that comes later. The best way, of course, is to see a junk rig in action. But for those many people for whom this is not possible, an interactive, moving 3-D graphic is a good second best. Arne this presentation is to provide basic introductory information -  a slightly different matter from promotion which, as you say (17 Feb), can be done with ordinary video.

    It is sufficient that some people have found it helpful and informative. 

    I am totally with Jim and Zane on this discussion.

    Arne I also disagree with your suggestion that sail-making involves “slavish adherence” to numbers, or the proximity of an expert. I followed the design and the advice of an expert when making my first sail, and I am glad I did, but even experts sometimes need to be reminded that there is no mystique about this. I just came back from a 4-day cruise on the Tauranga Harbour in company with a little 4.2m Paradox. The owner has made his sail, with no help, to his own design – it is a sprit rig made from polytarp, with a couple of darts in it to give it some belly. To reef, he drops the peak and it becomes a leg-o-mutton. The boat is limited to a somewhat narrower range of sailing conditions than it would be if it were a junk rig – but I have to say, I was amazed at how well the boat sailed and how close-winded it was. Especially considering the little flat-bottom hull has no keel and relies entirely on its simple hull shape, its chines and its rudder for lateral resistance. You can click on the image below.


    As an aside: I know that Arne has designed a junk rig for an enlarged version of one of these. This would undoubtedly be an improvement, but mainly from the sail-handling point of view. (Within its narrow range of optimal wind speed, this home-made sprit rig would not be beat by an expert-made junk, for simplicity or performance).

    (This boat is also a magnificent example of something Arne often advocates – the large rudder as a contributor to resisting leeway).

    As they say: "the smaller the boat........"

    Last modified: 26 Feb 2021 06:50 | Anonymous member
  • 21 Feb 2021 18:17
    Reply # 10122077 on 10116695
    Anonymous wrote:
    Zane wrote:

    Big fan of video instruction here, be it 3D graphic type or any other.

    Reading through PJR would bore me to tears.

    I learn best by watching, not reading a bunch of text.

    Others are different, good on 'em.  Reading text books reminds me of school - and I hated school.

    Jim, I say bring in on with the instructional 3D videos.  


    remember that you are privileged who have Paul Thompson around. He made you the sail (who designed it?). Moreover, you are surrounded by practical junkrig experts who can assist you when rigging. Now, there are very few sailmakers like Paul around in the world, so most people are mainly left to themselves.

    True, Arne.  That is why that people in a part of the world who don't have a Paul Thompson to design and make them a sail (on a commercial basis) might benefit from video instruction.
    You are one of the greats Arne, but I am not sure why you are so against video instruction?  If you were to make a video series of your next sail making project, I would subscribe on Youtube immediately and eagerly watch each episode.

  • 19 Feb 2021 18:17
    Reply # 10117305 on 4969130

    There are many different types of Junk Rig out there but all have the same basics in common.

    An unstayed mast and full length battens.

    Classic Hasler, Arne, Split Rig, Aero Rig, etc

    Maybe, when we get back to some sort of post Covid normality ( lucky Aussies and Kiwis),  members who might be inclined, could do a short video of their own particular rig.

    Maybe one segment filming on a quiet day to allow raising of the sail to explain the particular quirks of their rig and another segment, if help can be found, with the boat sailing,  demonstrating the various controls in action, including reefing, the various parrels in use and anything else which might be considered useful to a newbie.

    Showing the partners and mast steps, deck strengthening,

    Sheeting arrangements and the rational for same, etc.

    With regards to building a sail, I find both Arne's and Slieve's instructions quite good.

    Personally, when I built my Split sail, I did a lot of reading and asking questions on the website before I attempted to build. You can't get around the fact that you will have to do some reading. And then I did the actual work on some  small practice panels and things written in the notes became a lot clearer.

    But still you worry when working on your own with no-one looking over your shoulder big you're making a mess of it.

    But it worked out ok, and Mk2 will always be better than Mk1.

    So maybe members video their own boats and then either editt the lot ntoo one video or load them onto a YouTube channel?

  • 19 Feb 2021 18:10
    Reply # 10117295 on 10114209
    Videos can only partly help there. They would also be quite expensive to create, compared to written texts with diagrams.

     Yes, they can be expensive. I think what we have so far, is good value for money. It needs some work, such as finishing the number labeling. But that's doable. 

    We don't have to convert everything to this way of presentation. To my mind it's an excellent way to introduce the junkrig to newcomers. It's simple, it's quick and clear. 

    The digital graphics industry is growing rapidly. I hope the tools we might like will become increasingly cheaper.

    In drawings, I love Bruce Bingham's sketches in "The Sailor's Sketchbook." He can tell a story in one sketch. 

    I may be sticking my neck out here but I think his style of sketching might be better for guiding junk sail making than an interactive 3-D animation. Why do I say that? Perhaps because sail making, in a sense, is a very two dimensional occupation. 

  • 19 Feb 2021 17:46
    Reply # 10117260 on 10115900
    I learn best by watching, not reading a bunch of text.

    Others are different, good on 'em.  .....

     As I was saying, elsewhere....
  • 19 Feb 2021 17:41
    Reply # 10117235 on 10116001
    Anonymous wrote:

    Hello everybody,

    Given that I also love diagrams more than 3d virtual videos, I am convinced that a series of videos shot by a senior while lofting, cutting, sewing (including loops and hoops) and rigging a junk sail with cambered panels, could represent an excellent integration to a good text. In my opinion, this could become a valuable tool to encourage a beginner to take the first step and then accompany him on the journey.

    "in medio stat virtus" said the ancients ....


    We all learn in different ways. What you're suggesting will work well for like-wired brains. It would be interesting to poll our 700 members to ask them what their favorite way of learning is. (I'm not suggesting this!) We might be surprised. 
  • 19 Feb 2021 17:21
    Reply # 10117196 on 10116004
    Anonymous wrote:

    The late Robin Blain was a regular fixture at the Bealieu Boat Jumble, where he would demonstrate junk rigs with accurately constructed table-top models. Interested persons were invited to operate the control lines to help them understand how the rig works.

    I expect it'll be some time before anyone visits a boat Jumble, but I wonder what happened to Robin's models. If they can be found, close-up photos or video shots would provide the greatest clarity for anyone who didn't have the good fortune to meet Robin or play with his models.

    I visited Robin in 1999 and attended the AGM at the same time. Robin brought his model to the meeting. It was quite impressive. Does the JRA have it in storage perhaps?  Your suggestion to video tape demos could save us money perhaps. 
  • 19 Feb 2021 17:16
    Reply # 10117188 on 10114209

    Btw. what should the reason be for making the 3-D presentation if not to help people (design and) make their own sails? 


    I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying if we invest in 3-D presentations, our best return,  dollar for dollar is to help people design and make their own sails? 

    There is no reason why such a 3-D video couldn't be made in addition to what we've started. Cost is the limiting factor for everything. 

    But I think it better to start at the beginning so people know where they're heading.

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