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SibLim update

  • 03 Dec 2017 22:59
    Quote
    Reply # 5611465 on 4315719
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    I can see your point, David. 

    I still try to fit as tall (and big) sail as I can on the shortest possible  mast. However, on Johanna I overdid it a little. Besides, now, with the hybrid aluminium-spruce masts, weight is easier to keep down. On SibLim's shown mast, I guess I could increase the AR of the sail a little, maybe to 1.95 or 2.00, since the halyard drift looks so generous.

    However, this was about plonking Ingeborg's rig onto SibLim's sailplan, just to see. I think the size and height of the rig you have designed for SibLim makes sense.

    Arne

    PS, 4.12: Now I added a sail with AR=1.95, just one notch taller than Ingeborg's sail. It is the tallest there is room for on that mast, giving a SA=36.4sqm.



    Last modified: 04 Dec 2017 08:23 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 03 Dec 2017 22:17
    Quote
    Reply # 5611454 on 4315719
    Anonymous member

    Arne, what you say regarding lower loads when the sling point and YHP are moved further up the yard is quite true, of course, but it comes at the expense of a higher mast; and you have in the past advocated a low mast. Annie has said that she prefers a lower mast, and the sail I've drawn is my best effort at satisfying both that request and the request for light loadings on the lines. Really, I don't mind at all if she chooses to use one of your planforms, or some other planform. I only say that I've tried to match the rig to the boat and the owner as best I can.
  • 03 Dec 2017 21:11
    Quote
    Reply # 5611397 on 5611339
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    David Tyler wrote
     Not at all, dearest Annie, not at all. I merely murmur, sotto voce so that Arne cannot hear, that the high peaked yard requires more of a pull on the LHP to peak it up and take out the creases than does a low peaked yard, and thus is antithetical to your aim of a low stress, easy to use rig.

    David,

    The pulling force on the Throat Hauling Parrel, THP, varies not just with the peaking of the yard, but just as much (or more) of the position of the halyard’s slingpoint and the position of the YHP.

    On my Johanna, the mast was on the short side and this forced the slingpoint to sit on the middle of the yard. On later boats, Frøken Sørensen and Ingeborg, I have been more generous with the mast length, and this has let me move the sling point to 5% aft of the middle. The point of the YHP has been moved even further aft and up. This has offloaded the THP so much that I by now can say that it is quite light, indeed. I just set it up with a quick tug on it (the THP and YHP run through clutches), no sweat at all.

    Arne

    Ingeborg's sail with slingpoint and YHP position well aft.



    Last modified: 04 Dec 2017 06:55 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 03 Dec 2017 20:44
    Quote
    Reply # 5611382 on 5611291
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    Annie Hill wrote:
    Dearest Arne, The Great One would eviscerate me if I were even to consider it!!  I was interested that Ingeborg's sail would just 'drop into place', so to speak.  Somehow I thought that your rig was a lot taller.  What do you reckon Ingeborg displaces (I'm too lazy to look it up!)?  SibLim is supposed to be about 3 tonnes - a bit heavier?  But you seem to have plenty of sail area, which is reassuring.  I would like to be able to waft along in near-calm conditions.

    Annie,

    I just had to have a look to see how it fitted. Ingeborg’s sail, with its AR=1.90, is close to the lower end AR-wise in my range of master sails. Only Johanna’ s sail was lower at AR=1.87. Her sail area is 35.2sqm, very close to SibLim’s original sail (34.9sqm). Ingeborg’s rig is not specialised to beat records upwind, but rather to be a good all-rounder with a low mast, about 9.6m above the wl.

    The IF’s (empty) displacement is 2150kg and her iron keel is 1250kg(!). Ingeborg is less generously rigged than most of my earlier boats. The sail area of her JR is the same as mainsail plus Genoa 1 on the original rig.

    Arne
  • 03 Dec 2017 20:43
    Quote
    Reply # 5611380 on 5611293
    Anonymous member
    Annie Hill wrote:
    Jim Creighton wrote:

    At the risk of reducing discussion to competitive punning, may I suggest (tongue in cheek) a name with attention seeking potential?

    MAE DAE  After the Hindu goddess of hopeless causes.

    Imagine the scenarios of the "Who's-on-First" variety. E.g., starting with,"Wellington Traffic, this is Mae Dae, over."



    What a wonderfully appropriate name!  I have strong suspicions that the registrar would refuse to allow the name, but I certainly won't be registering in NZ - I need to install heaps of stuff I want nothing to do with, before I'm allowed to go offshore.  Our stupid regulations would prevent Roger Taylor from doing his epic voyaging!

    On a similar theme is my favourite all time name: Peggy Babcock.  To appreciate it in all its beauty, you have to say it out loud, as though you are one of the few people who obeys VHF protocol, as, hopefully, the bureaucrats trying to control you, would be: Peggy Babcock, Peggy Babcock, Peggy Babcock


    If it can't be SIBLIM, how about YABA? 
  • 03 Dec 2017 20:17
    Quote
    Reply # 5611339 on 5611291
    Anonymous member
    Annie Hill wrote:
    Arne Kverneland wrote:

    Sorry, but the temptation was irresistible...

    Dearest Arne, The Great One would eviscerate me if I were even to consider it!!  I was interested that Ingeborg's sail would just 'drop into place', so to speak.  Somehow I thought that your rig was a lot taller.  What do you reckon Ingeborg displaces (I'm too lazy to look it up!)?  SibLim is supposed to be about 3 tonnes - a bit heavier?  But you seem to have plenty of sail area, which is reassuring.  I would like to be able to waft along in near-calm conditions.
    Not at all, dearest Annie, not at all. I merely murmur, sotto voce so that Arne cannot hear, that the high peaked yard requires more of a pull on the LHP to peak it up and take out the creases than does a low peaked yard, and thus is antithetical to your aim of a low stress, easy to use rig.
  • 03 Dec 2017 19:51
    Quote
    Reply # 5611293 on 5610944
    Anonymous member
    Jim Creighton wrote:

    At the risk of reducing discussion to competitive punning, may I suggest (tongue in cheek) a name with attention seeking potential?

    MAE DAE  After the Hindu goddess of hopeless causes.

    Imagine the scenarios of the "Who's-on-First" variety. E.g., starting with,"Wellington Traffic, this is Mae Dae, over."



    What a wonderfully appropriate name!  I have strong suspicions that the registrar would refuse to allow the name, but I certainly won't be registering in NZ - I need to install heaps of stuff I want nothing to do with, before I'm allowed to go offshore.  Our stupid regulations would prevent Roger Taylor from doing his epic voyaging!

    On a similar theme is my favourite all time name: Peggy Babcock.  To appreciate it in all its beauty, you have to say it out loud, as though you are one of the few people who obeys VHF protocol, as, hopefully, the bureaucrats trying to control you, would be: Peggy Babcock, Peggy Babcock, Peggy Babcock


    Last modified: 03 Dec 2017 19:53 | Anonymous member
  • 03 Dec 2017 19:46
    Quote
    Reply # 5611291 on 5610850
    Anonymous member
    Arne Kverneland wrote:

    Sorry, but the temptation was irresistible...

    Dearest Arne, The Great One would eviscerate me if I were even to consider it!!  I was interested that Ingeborg's sail would just 'drop into place', so to speak.  Somehow I thought that your rig was a lot taller.  What do you reckon Ingeborg displaces (I'm too lazy to look it up!)?  SibLim is supposed to be about 3 tonnes - a bit heavier?  But you seem to have plenty of sail area, which is reassuring.  I would like to be able to waft along in near-calm conditions.
  • 03 Dec 2017 14:13
    Quote
    Reply # 5610944 on 4315719
    Anonymous member

    At the risk of reducing discussion to competitive punning, may I suggest (tongue in cheek) a name with attention seeking potential?

    MAE DAE  After the Hindu goddess of hopeless causes.

    Imagine the scenarios of the "Who's-on-First" variety. E.g., starting with,"Wellington Traffic, this is Mae Dae, over."
  • 03 Dec 2017 11:10
    Quote
    Reply # 5610850 on 4315719
    Anonymous member (Administrator)


    Just to add another distraction; here is SibLim with Ingeborg’s sailplan fitted. It is a direct copy, dimensions and all. I moved its CE a bit aft of the original, but the sail can anyway be shifted about 20cm forward or aft from this position.


    Sorry, but the temptation was irresistible...


    Arne

     
       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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