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Junkette (?)

  • 18 Aug 2013 14:26
    Quote
    Reply # 1368839 on 1366504
    Deleted user
    What you think of using a gaff saddle for the high peaked yard raised with 2 halyards as for a gaff and lower down a transition to battens on one side of the mast as for a junk sail?
    That would allow for a higher aspect ratio of the sail.
    As you can see I am struggling wih the interference of the aft shrouds with the yard though my boat is not rigged at the moment so it might just be a non issue. I don't know.
    Thierry
  • 18 Aug 2013 01:22
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    Reply # 1368692 on 1366504
    Deleted user
    Ketil,

    Sounds like you are flirting with a near balance lug sail at that point!  If you're hauling the luff that tight and sheeting in aft that hard you're practically eliminating the need for battens on that point of sail.  I've heard that a well set up balance lug is about the most windward-capable rig out there, beating even a stayed jib handily.  Sounds like you've found a good way to get the reefed benefits of a junk with the windward performance of a balance lug, albeit with some deck work required.  Can you do the same with downhauls do you think?
  • 17 Aug 2013 18:22
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    Reply # 1368570 on 1366504
    Anonymous member

    Arne,

    A straight leach, and I mean tight, foreward end of the sail is essential for gaining a close point to windward. After reefing I go forwart to tie the battens together and tie up the loose sail to stop it from adding a brake. I even tie the battens together at the luff. The sail is so hard sheeted in the it can be done in comfort. I can go as close as 26 degrees to the relative wind to get the best "speed to the wind" readings on my instruments. I got comments on "sailing irritating close and fast to the wind" on my last outing.

    Cheers

    Ketil
  • 16 Aug 2013 19:47
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    Reply # 1368037 on 1366504
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Stavanger, Friday

    Thierry

    You asked:

    "the vanging effect has a forward component along the battens. How big is that force when running?"

    I don’t think that will be a big problem, in particular not in your boat as you cannot sheet out the sail that much because of the shrouds. In Practical JR Hasler and McLeod warn against compression in the battens if you square out the sail too much, that is, past square.

    You asked:

    set of light downhauls at the mast, Each downhaul　handles two battens.
    "Are they there to keep the luff tight or to help when reefing?"

    Both. I thought they might me useful in ensuring that the junkette sail would not stick when lowering the sail and it also ensures that the luff of the lowest panels sets straight. I have fitted downhauls to my Johanna recently, just as a test. Johanna’s sail comes down without help, but a light tug on the downhaul stretches the lowest luff (probably more for the looks than for the performance). These downhauls are easy to deal with and don’t add much friction when hoisting the sail.

    Arne

    　
  • 16 Aug 2013 19:10
    Quote
    Reply # 1368005 on 1367940
    Deleted user
    Glad to see you soon Daniel, you'll have the possibility of explaining all that to me directly.
    Daniel Collins wrote:Thierry,

    As a followon to Arne's comment, which I agree with, I can attest that these sails are so easy to make and battens are a cinch.  I made two 30 square metre sails in 10 days, and I could do them in about half the time now, I think.  The battens took another day and a half total.  So I would say you could make your entire sail, battens and all, in a week of efficient work.  

  • 16 Aug 2013 19:07
    Quote
    Reply # 1368003 on 1367864
    Deleted user
    the vanging effect of the sheeting system.

    the vanging effect has a forward component along the battens. How big is that force when running?

    a set of light downhauls at the mast, Each downhaul handles two battens.

    Are they there to keep the luff tight or to help when reefing?

    Sorry about the stupid questions, I am just starting investigating that possibility that has been raised during a sail on Terrapin with Mike and Debbie last week-end. This is a really truly beautiful boat. They are in the process of sewing new sails to change over from hinge battens to quilted sail.
  • 16 Aug 2013 17:51
    Quote
    Reply # 1367940 on 1366504
    Deleted user
    Thierry,

    As a followon to Arne's comment, which I agree with, I can attest that these sails are so easy to make and battens are a cinch.  I made two 30 square metre sails in 10 days, and I could do them in about half the time now, I think.  The battens took another day and a half total.  So I would say you could make your entire sail, battens and all, in a week of efficient work.  No reason not to go the whole way.  Plus the battens add a number of very useful reef points in between what you'd have for your current rig, and trust me, with how easy reefing is on a junk, it's perfect to have a couple more points for tweaking, and they are easier to shake out.  

    You won't regret it.
  • 16 Aug 2013 16:21
    Quote
    Reply # 1367864 on 1366504
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Stavanger, Friday

    Thierry

    Your idea of only having only 3 battens "corresponding to the original reefs and a lazy jacks system" sounds like a seriously bad idea: The rig will simply lose the main asset with the junk sail; distribution /reduction of stress plus the vanging effect of the sheeting system. I rather suggest that you make a real 7-panel junkette sail with about equal size panels, and then sheet the sail with anti-twist sheeting to all but the top batten. This will ensure a moderate twist and keep the yard/gaff from being bent against the aft shroud. When reefing, all you will need is a set of light downhauls at the mast, lead aft to the cockpit. Each downhaul handles two battens. At the aft end, the downpull of the sheets will keep the leech taut, just as on junksails.

    Arne

    Last modified: 16 Aug 2013 16:23 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 16 Aug 2013 12:41
    Quote
    Reply # 1367738 on 1366540
    Deleted user
    Have you noticed that Daniel is heading your way in his 'rolling junket' cruise? Plenty of posts about it in the Cruises and Rallies forum.


    I am in contact in Daniel. Cruises and Rallies forum? Where is that?
  • 16 Aug 2013 12:35
    Quote
    Reply # 1367734 on 1366504
    Deleted user
    My biggest worry is the yard interfering with the aft shrouds if I use a conventional junk main sail. That is why I thought a gaff junk would be more adequate. Now the question is to find if anyone has ever used a junkette and how they solved the problem of terminating the battens at the mast.
    Another possibility would be to find a way to reef in a similar way as with a junk sail. I wouldn't need 6 battens but only 3 corresponding to the original reefs and a lazy jacks system.
    I suppose an hybridation is possible. It's just the question of finding the best way. I am open to suggestions.

    Thierry
       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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