Reefing in a choppy sea

<< First  < Prev   1   2   Next >  Last >> 
  • 20 Sep 2024 08:55
    Reply # 13408768 on 13405202

    In the other thread "camber and induced drag", I've been recently writing about my thoughts to further simplify the rig by removing HK parrels and the THP.


    After yesterday, I do need to rethink!


    We've been steaming along, dead running, at 7.3 kn for some dozens minutes. That is 1.0 kn above hull speed. It felt well under control, Ilvy behaved as usual. I constantly checked bending of batten #3, but is was fine, I've seen it bend worse. All was good - and fun!

    Being close to a windward shore, the sea was perfectly flat. The opposite of what the topic of this thread describes. Approaching a narrow buoyed seaway, we reefed to slow down. The sail came down a bit: the upper battens and yard went down, but the lower ones not so much. The sail "folded" over it's entire height. It was not a bad thing, still able to be sheeted as normal. But still, not properly reefed. I repeat: though we've been fast as h***, there was barely any roll movement in the boat - and no waves. This, combined with a LOT of pressure in the sail, finally illustrated the limits of easy reefing. Normally, the waves and rolling motion of Ilvy would have brought the sail down rather quickly! 

    We used YHP and THP to bring the sail down to the designated reef: pulling and let go of those two, one by one after each other for several times did the trick. I was glad to still have the THP.!

    That was a rather special occasion, and wouldn't have happened if we didn't push Ilvy that far to the limits. Anyways, I am healed now about wishing to omit the THP. To handle that one more line is a compromise I could live with - until someone comes up with a better concept.


    Cheers,

    Paul

    1 file
    Last modified: 16 Oct 2024 21:13 | Anonymous member
  • 18 Sep 2024 01:27
    Reply # 13407860 on 13405202

    I've always used a yard parallel and never understood why others did not. Although I have rigged mine to the forward end of the yard. 

  • 17 Sep 2024 23:12
    Reply # 13407824 on 13405202

    This looks like an excellent innovation!  I shall try it myself.

  • 15 Sep 2024 14:41
    Reply # 13406864 on 13405202
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Will the yard parrel replace the fan-up preventer?

    Good, Paul,
    this was what I hoped for. I will fit such a yard parrel (YP?) on Ingeborg’s sail as well. I still have this Fan-up Preventer, FUP, but I hope that the new YP will tame that yard enough so I can wait with touching the FUP until after hoisting or reefing the sail (..for extra safety...).

    May I ask; have you fitted a FUP to Ilvy’s sail?
    (Edit: Yes, I could spot it now on a video clip...)
    Cheers,
    Arne

    PS: It’s sooo good to have a competent test pilot out there...


    Last modified: 15 Sep 2024 15:03 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 15 Sep 2024 10:45
    Reply # 13406842 on 13405202

    Experience with yard parrel

    I put on the yard parrel from 20 % to 57 % chord on the yard. Just lashed it there, and tightened it as far as possible whith the sail bundle all down – thus the mast most forward on the yard, which gives the 20 % value on Ilvy.

    When the yard is raised, the mast moves aft on it – on that position I fixed the aft end of the yard parrel (57 % on Ilvy). See the following sketch:

    The further the yard is raised, the more slack the yard parrel gets due to the taper of the mast. In reality, it looks like this:

    We’ve been putting on the test, yesterday, sailing from Rödvig to Nyord in an easterly F6. This meant sailing into a lee shore, with water depths reducing from 15 m to 2.5 m. You can imagine how choppy the sea got… We’ve been reefing quite a lot, also deep reefing to two and even one panel (to reduce speed while entering the narrow entrance with wind from behind. Scary!) All in all, perfect conditions to test that yard parrel to the guts in a choppy sea.

    It performed very well! The movement of the upper sail in direction of the yard was limited by the attachment points of the yard parrel. There still was movement, as 20 - 57 % is a wide range. However, it was way less than before. Most important: the danger of the yard moving too far forward and entangle in the lazy jack lines is reduced a lot. The sail just could not go any further forward than the halyard sling point thanks to the yard parrel. Also, in normal direction to the sail, the yard was held more closer to the mast (on starboard tack) than before. Really an improvement!

    It was not a wee bit harder to hoist the sail, as the yard parrel is slack most of the time. Also, when YHP and THP are sheeted in to the correct position the yard parrel is slack. It is really only under tension, when YHP and THP are thrown loose to reef or hoist.

     

    I can state: A definite improvement to safety, handling and peace of mind!
    Last modified: 18 Sep 2024 17:08 | Anonymous member
  • 10 Sep 2024 20:19
    Message # 13405202

    In the other thread "camber and induced drag" things got a bit off-topic with the reefing. Let's continue here:

    [...] we do not "trim" the THP [on Ilvy], nor touch it while steady sailing. It is, however, one more line to handle when reefing. If the THP could be omitted, reefing would be even faster thus safer. On Ilvy we reef very often, as it is so simple compared to BM. In choppy seas, however, it can be quite frightening when YHP and THP are loosened to lower the sail: a lot of banging and clonging around above our heads... If that could be improved by simplification, it would be a good step!

    - Paul S.


    Although I generally sail on flatter waters than you do, I too have experienced this a couple of times this summer: As I reefed and with a slack sheet , YHP and THP, the yard was flying about quite a bit, as the boat rolled with waves beam on. What I fear in those cases is that the tip of the yard shall fall forward of the topping lift. Luckily I have my secret weapon, the FUP. By taking in the slack on that FUP-line as the sail is gradually lowered, the yard is restricted from fanning forward. I have not had a yard/topping lift tangle (yet).Two shots in the dark:

    • Would a long ‘batten parrel’ fitted to the yard help to tame it?
    • How about fitting a SJR-type downhaul only to batten no. 3? The foggy idea is that if one can tame that batten, the rest of the sail will behave as well...

    - Arne K.

    Arne, I installed that yard batten parrel today as I had one further batten parrel, sewn and everything, onboard as a spare. I wanted to install it as a yard parrel since the beginning of our cruise in May, but was too lazy to do so yet. The aft end is now attached close to the halyard sling point, as the sling point should not be forward of the mast anyways. The forward end I fixed to the position where the mast rests if the sail is fully lowered. Test setting and lowering in harbour shows that this yard parrel is not in the way of anything. So far so good.

    However, as Ilvy's mast is conical, the yard parrel will be quite slack when the sail is fully set or even reefed one or two panels down. Practice will show if it would be still of any use. I will report.


    While I expect some interesting insights from this yard parrel test, I think the problem is more that the sail swings fore and aft within the sail plane - not perpendicular to it. YHP and THP are the only counteractors, yet! Very short batten parrels, shortened to rather plain loops than really parrels, would help.


    Cheers,

    Paul


    PS: Today, Frederik E. came over for a visit on Ilvy, and we had some very interesting discussions on the influence of deck layout on reefing procedures (and a lot of other topics).

    Last modified: 15 Sep 2024 21:26 | Anonymous member
<< First  < Prev   1   2   Next >  Last >> 
       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

                                                              Site contents © the Junk Rig Association and/or individual authors

Powered by Wild Apricot Membership Software