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Reefing in a choppy sea

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  • 18 Oct 2024 18:23
    Quote
    Reply # 13420723 on 13405202
    Anonymous member

    Thanks, Arne and Mauro!

    The FUP system surely prevents any fan-ups, but it needs attention as the sail area is altered, so is a bit awkward in use, after all.

    - Arne K.

    I agree! Until now, Ilvy has a FUP built to your design, and it got us safely through Sweden. It does the job. However, it is a bit annoying to use, but even worse: it causes a lot of friction between FUP line and sail cloth. Not good for the sail, and quite tough to haul the loose FUP in after getting the sail down... There is space for improvement!

    The FUF would be the most elegant solution. 

    (Alternatively, I could reuse the FUP line as a spanned downhaul on the upper battens, as Slieve designed them. Due to the high mast balance, those downhauls, acting at mast position, would induce force close to the middle of the battens and thus effectively prevent any Fan-Up. But that concept only works with high mast balance!)


    Thanks, Arne, I will try that Fan-Up testing procedure and report!


    Would it be an idea to let the FUF on the starboard side combine to also act as a yard parrel by attaching it forward of the mast?

    - Arne K.

    Interesting question! First: It would result quite a long combined yard parrel/ FUF line, which would reduce the force which pulls yard and mast together. Second: I arranged the aft end of the yard parrel in a way, that with fully set sails I can pull on the YHP and the mast settles into the yard parrel aft end. Like this, I can't pull the yard any further forward than this settled position - which I positioned to my desired weather helm. Thus, I do not need to look up when tightening the YHP, I just pull hard until it doesn't move any more - and all is settled.

    So: no, I do not see advantage in combining the stb FUF with the yard parrel.


    Cheers,

    Paul

    Last modified: 18 Oct 2024 18:28 | Anonymous member
  • 17 Oct 2024 12:40
    Quote
    Reply # 13420055 on 13405202
    Anonymous member

    What a beautiful picture Paul!!

    I'm also curious to know how your FUF works...

    Cheers Mauro
  • 17 Oct 2024 10:17
    Quote
    Reply # 13420032 on 13405202
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Paul,

    your FUF looks very promising, now that I begin to understand how it works. At first, I worried that it would only prevent the yard from flying forward, but now I see that it will also catch the next battens if they try to fly past the yard.
    Next season I hope to be able to try it. If it works without adding too much friction, I will pension the FUP system that I have been using on my last two boats. The FUP system surely prevents any fan-ups, but it needs attention as the sail area is altered, so is a bit awkward in use, after all.

    There is a way to test the FUP’s functionality without risking trouble, and I think that your FUF can be tested in the same way:

    With Ilvy safely sitting in her berth, hoist 2-4 panels. Then use the yard hauling parrel (YHP) and try to peak up the yard as much as you can. Hopefully, the FUF will simply prevent the yard from slipping too far forward. At least that is what happens when I do the same with my FUP line set up (needs not be set very taut). Without the FUP line set up, it is easy to overdo the peaking up and bring the peak of the yard forward of the topping lift.
    To make my FUP system bullet proof, I make the boom a bit stouter than the lower battens, and the tack line (TL) is lead aft on the boom so it looks like a kicking strap (with a rubber snubber on it to provide the needed flexibility). This TL is set up with a little tension, even with the sail fully lowered.

    This half-taut TL ensures that the boom itself cannot fly up, and will thus make the FUP line more efficient in a rolling sea. It may even make your FUF more efficient by keeping the topping lifts moderately taut.

    I’m looking forward to hearing the result of that test.

    Cheers,
    Arne

    PS: Would it be an idea to let the FUF on the starboard side combine to also act as a yard parrel by attaching it forward of the mast?

    Last modified: 17 Oct 2024 10:43 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 16 Oct 2024 22:23
    Quote
    Reply # 13419856 on 13405202
    Anonymous member

    May I ask, what happened to the “fan-up fence” concept? I know it was suggested eleven years ago, but did anyone install and test it? Looks promising to me.

    Paul S.

    FUF: Fan-Up-Fence

    As I wrote about a month ago, I found that Fan-Up-Fence (FUF) concept from 2013 quite interesting. It seemed to me that no one did build and test it, so I thought I might give it a try.

    Today I installed a FUF on Ilvy, made from simple 25 mm PES webbing. Before, I watched closely when setting sail, to get the chord-interval at which the lazy jacks move fore and aft. The FUF consists of two webbings, one on each side of the yard. Each webbing is tied to the yard at its fore and aft end, and goes around the Lazy-Jacks, sail catchers and YHP. The aft end of the FUF I tied to the yard just at the most aft position to which the lazy jacks get. This most aft position occurs when only 2-3 panels are set. The forward end of the FUF I tied well forward of the halyard attachment point to the yard. Have a look at this simple sketch:

    If a Fan-up would appear, the FUF would hinder the yard end to move forward of the Lazy-Jack lines. Ideally, this would prevent any entanglement, while being a passive system. Too good to be true? Let’s see…

    (above: FUF on port side of yard. With 2.5 panels set, the Lazys just touch the end of the FUF.)

    (above: port side FUF, close view. The port side Lazys as well as the sailcatcher lines are between FUF and yard.)

    (above: starboard side FUF. Lazys and YHP are between FUF and yard. Sail fully set.)

    (above: starboard side FUF. With 2.5 panels set, the Lazys just touch the end of the FUF.)


    I took the chance and used the rest of the evening for a test sail. The sail goes up and down as usual: nice and smooth. Any additional friction by the FUF is negligible. So far so good. It was blowing F5-6 gusting to F8, me single-handing and it was already getting dark. Not the best conditions for intentional slow “Chinese” gybes. This kind of adventurous testing will have to wait.

    Are there any proven methods at hand which would let me test the safe functionality of such a fan-up preventing device? It would be nice to not intentionally risk a big mess if in any case the FUF would not work! I would be very thankful for suggestions.


    In the end, it was a nice nightly sail anyway, under full moon. Battling with a Dehler 38, Ilvy was able to catch up from a 100 m backlog over a 3 nm stretch, beam reaching. She made constantly 7.5 kn, if it wasn't for her weight and round belly she would have taken off :-)

    Cheers,

    Paul

    Last modified: 16 Oct 2024 22:26 | Anonymous member
  • 22 Sep 2024 11:26
    Quote
    Reply # 13409421 on 13405202
    Anonymous member

    Thank you, that's exactly the one I referred to.
  • 21 Sep 2024 09:46
    Quote
    Reply # 13409235 on 13405202
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Paul S
    I just upgraded my Word-file with links to interesting topics on this site.

    It sits in my Dropbox folder. You find the link to it on the bottom of my member's profile page.

    I hope this is the one you mean...

    Arne

    PS:
    In the heading of that file I warn that many of the links have died due to 'upgrades' in Wild Apricot. However, when testing the links today, it seems that they work just fine, so the problem must have been sorted out.

    Last modified: 21 Sep 2024 09:58 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 21 Sep 2024 07:11
    Quote
    Reply # 13409229 on 13405202
    Anonymous member

    Recently I stumbled over Arne K.’s Link-Sheet, in which he points to several interesting threads. In one of those, from 2013, Paul T. writes:

    Another line that can help to control "Fan ups" is a fixed batten parrel on the yard. The batten parrel will not prevent a "fan up" but in the event that it should happen, it will limit how far forward the yard could go.

    This line is a standing one (ie. fixed) so it does not add to the number of lines that you need to give attention. it also helps to keep the yard under control when hosting or lowering under difficult conditions.

    - Paul T., 2013

    It appears that we recently tried to reinvent the wheel when fitting the yard parrel to Ilvy…

     

    May I ask, what happened to the “fan-up fence” concept? I know it was suggested eleven years ago, but did anyone install and test it? Looks promising to me.

     

    PS: I again lost track to Arne’s Link-Sheet, and can’t find it again. Also, it appears to me that the search function of the forum does not include the Yacht Club Bar…

  • 21 Sep 2024 06:58
    Quote
    Reply # 13409228 on 13408884
    Anonymous member

    Then it dawned to me that this reefing problem of yours only shows up when sailing on flat water. I therefore suggest that you just round up for a second and reef the sail while spilling the wind, and then fall off again to the original course. On flat water there is no risk to the boat and little risk for even spilling any coffee.

    My THPs (on several boats) have also occasionally done second duty as downhauls. A quick tug in it is usually enough to free the sail. There is less need for it now, after I shifted the halyard slingpoint of my two last boats somewhat aft of the middle of the yard.

    - Arne

    Yes, it really was a flat water issue. Still, something to keep in mind... don't we all hope for flat seas from time to time :-)

    PS: I have fitted that yard parrel, YP onto Ingeborg too, now, but haven’t sailed with it yet...

    Interesting! Let's see how it goes.
  • 20 Sep 2024 18:13
    Quote
    Reply # 13408965 on 13405202
    Anonymous member

    It’s amazing to see all the developments of the rig that is taking place here!

    I will also improve my rig with your brilliant YP.

    Thank you Paul!
  • 20 Sep 2024 16:06
    Quote
    Reply # 13408884 on 13405202
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Interesting reading, Paul!

    Now I was about to suggest that you add a downhaul to the two lowest battens, which would involve only one hauling end. This is an optional extra, which PJR suggests for offshore work.

    Then it dawned to me that this reefing problem of yours only shows up when sailing on flat water. I therefore suggest that you just round up for a second and reef the sail while spilling the wind, and then fall off again to the original course. On flat water there is no risk to the boat and little risk for even spilling any coffee.

    My THPs (on several boats) have also occasionally done second duty as downhauls. A quick tug in it is usually enough to free the sail. There is less need for it now, after I shifted the halyard slingpoint of my two last boats somewhat aft of the middle of the yard.

    Cheers, Arne

    PS: I have fitted that yard parrel, YP onto Ingeborg too, now, but haven’t sailed with it yet...


    Last modified: 20 Sep 2024 16:18 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
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