Open little sailboats, suited for daysailing or camping - with or without a JR

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  • 15 Jul 2021 20:14
    Reply # 10754038 on 10747848

    Hi Graeme, 

    The earlier Wayfarers like mine have combined air buoyancy and storage tanks fore and aft for storage of luggage.

    My Mk2 has a large removable lid on top for easier access to the aft inside.

    It is sealed against ingress of water by a built up lip at the edge of the opening, outside of which is a thick and wide self adhesive closed cell rubber strip stuck to the deck onto which the lid sits, the lid being held closed at the front by 3 over centre clips and at the rear by 3 sliding brackets which push downward as they are tightened.

    There is a check which can be carried out by blowing air into the tank and using a pipe full of water to check if the tank is leaking.

    I did a check on mine after a few years of not, and found very little leakage. So large hatches can be sealed quite well against water ingress and as you said, if the tank is also full of light stuff, it is harder for the water to get in.

    Hope that is of some use.

    Dave D.

    Last modified: 15 Jul 2021 20:16 | Anonymous member
  • 15 Jul 2021 08:16
    Reply # 10752725 on 10747848

    Arne I totally agree with the need for places to store luggage on a camper-cruiser.

    Preferably the storage compartments should be water tight. I am facing a quandary with Little Dipper, and not sure what to do next. I built side buoyancy tanks - as low as the very low thwarts, but raised amidships to match the height of the off-centreboard case, and to improve buoyancy.

    There is more than enough volume there for storage - and probably more than enough volume for them to also act as buoyancy tanks.

    I was planning for them to be dual purpose, by making the tops fully watertight, and making the insides accessible via the usual inspection ports. Trouble is, it is awkward to stow and unpack gear through those inspection ports. I have not yet sealed down the tops, and I am re-considering.

    I am wondering now about just making rain-proof hinged lids, at least for those larger midships tanks, and filling the space with clothing, sleeping bag, air mattress etc in waterproof bags - all those things with fairly low density - and filling up any surplus space with a couple of inflatable buoyancy bags which I am hoping will take up the appropriate shape when inflated, and displace that surplus volume.  I was thinking that in the unlikely event of a capsize, there would still be enough useful buoyancy and even if a bit of water got into the tanks, the "dry" items would stay dry in their waterproof bags. (Heavy things like water bottles to be locked down under the floorboards).

    If anyone has comments or a better idea, I would like to know.

  • 14 Jul 2021 09:13
    Reply # 10750258 on 10747848
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Graeme: Your recent tests of stability of these 8-foot tenders surely speak for having buoyancy in the sides.

    However, on Buddy I would not go as far as making the cockpit seats as closed tanks. I need them for storing stuff, for instance the bulky cockpit cover with its arced battens. As long as the seats prevent large amounts of water from entering in an 60° knock-down, I am happy enough. The combination of some fixed ballast and the high-sitting volume of the boat should help us self-right. Note how the 5-plank vessel will have its lifting volume much higher up when sitting on its side: If the Halibut model had been decked over, it would have had quite a bit righting moment left at 90° heel.
    Such knock-downs are not to happen frequently with the intended inshore use of Buddy. The inconvenience of having to bail out some water, is a fine reminder: Memento mori.

    The seat fronts of the cockpit will not be watertight, but they will be ‘slosh-tight’, so free water will not slosh from side to side. It would be easy to make hinge-up seat fronts, to turn the seats into two comfortable berths.

    The internal part of the ballast is meant to sit a little forward, so that the boat will trim right with one person on board, sitting at the helm.

    I am not sure which came first of Halibut or Buddy. My first study of the 5-plank pram was actually the 6m lightweight keelboat, shown below. It taught me how to find the volume, and with the use of constant deadrise, I could even develop the planks, even if my QCAD program is not meant for designing boats.


    PS: Although this discussion could well have continued on the ‘junket boat’ thread, I felt that this quite big matter deserved its own space.

    Last modified: 14 Jul 2021 09:20 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 14 Jul 2021 00:43
    Reply # 10749561 on 10747848

    Arne: Buddy would make a very nice little “junket boat” and her dish-shaped” hull is very interesting to compare with the 4m SibLim hull, which is also 5-plank but quite a different shape.

    I expect Buddy is a stretched version of Halibut – which I also enjoyed to compare with David’s “baby SibLim”. (Scale model building proved Halibut easy to plank up, and trials show that Halibut is a big, buoyant and powerful dinghy, though in the event of a capsize I would prefer the side buoyancy tanks which David gave to baby SibLim).

    On that subject, if you are going to have side seats on Buddy, would it be worth considering building them in as side tanks? This seems to widen the stability range considerably, and might even let Buddy recover from a knockdown with very little water to be bailed out. I suppose it would also suit some people, then, to shift the centreboard case out to one of those side bulkheads.

    Another comment – I like the ballasted swinging centreboard (I am mulling over the possibility of making a ferrocement one) – but I once owned a boat with a swinging centreboard and a fixed rudder – a story that did not end well when I ran over a reef one day. Buddy would be a good case for your very clever transom-hinge kick-up rudder.

    Well, I might as well display Little Dipper which is a Welsford designed Golden Bay 3-plank skiff, 3.9 m x 1.3 m

    She was designed as much for rowing as sailing – I am in the process of converting her to a junk rigged over-nighter – what I call a “junket boat”. There are more details on this, and Gary’s Bolger Cartopper – and also of course more details on 4m SibLim and Arne’s Buddy  - on another related and lengthy thread: “Junket Boats” in the technical forum.

    Thinking about possible sail plan forms for Little Dipper. The one on the left is the designer's.

    Last modified: 14 Jul 2021 03:53 | Anonymous member
  • 13 Jul 2021 17:46
    Reply # 10748799 on 10747848
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Buddy, an ongoing study  -  now 4.46m long

    I miss my Oslojolle, Broremann  -  and I don’t.
    (Btw. Broremann is a he from now on. It is a pet name used on little-brothers)

    After Broremann received a JR, he became a lovely, stress-free boat to be in. I sailed it as a keelboat, sitting on its floorboard. By letting him heel over a bit, there was much less spray flying. The 50kg iron cb. could be felt. Still, with the low freeboard and open cockpit, one could easily end up in trouble. In addition, the centreboard trunk came in the way, so it was a little anti social  -  definitely not party-friendly.

    The Buddy design study below is an attempt to retain Broremann’s good sides, while avoiding its weak ones.

    I imagine Buddy to end up with a dry weight between 150-180kg, of which 30-60kg will be ballast. 30kg of the ballast will be in the tip of the centreboard. There are  two watertight bulkheads and access hatches in the deck for those combined store- and flotation-rooms. The backrests behind the cockpit benches close the gap up to the cockpit coaming, so in case of an 80° knockdown, the water will not fill the boat. As the boat falls back upright, some 50-100 l of the water on the bench will fall into the boat and must be bailed out.

    (I once built this system into a 26ft keelboat, after it almost sailed itself under, and it worked splendidly well.)

    To avoid filling this open boat with rain between my outings, a quick-fit cover with sewn-on, arced ribs would be fitted. Such a cover was a big success on Broremann.
    Buddy should work very well with 1-3 persons, and maybe take 4 or 5 on a light-wind evening spin.

    Design-wise, Buddy is basically drawn like a shuttle ferry, with circular curves, just as was that 8’ Halibut tender. I have stretched the bow a little, recently to get that bow transom well out of the water.

    Have a look.


    Last modified: 14 Jul 2021 19:51 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 13 Jul 2021 13:21
    Reply # 10748232 on 10747848

    The San Francisco Bay Pelican - particularly the standard 12 ft version fits the bill nicely, and junk rigged versions certainly exist. My own has an unbattened lug rig with foresail and is a splendid little daysailer, which can take a significant amount of loading!

  • 13 Jul 2021 11:28
    Reply # 10748030 on 10747848


    I offer my Webb 14 design for consideration.

    The prototype I built and sailed when I was in California proved fast, well balanced, easy to rig and was also very easy and fast to row.

    The balanced lusail rig as shown performed well, but could easily be replaced by a double Halibut rig or two of the four panel junk sails shown in my competition dinghy entries.


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    Last modified: 13 Jul 2021 11:33 | Anonymous member
  • 13 Jul 2021 09:16
    Message # 10747848
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    The matter of finding a good open sailboat for daysailing or camping will always be interesting. Slieve just presented a string of candidates in the “4m SibLim dinghy” thread. To avoid clogging David’s thread, I open this one to everyone who have ideas about open, fairly unpretentious sailboats, suited for a JR. They may have centreboards or fixed keels and be with or without ballast. Common to them is that they are boats, not yachts, not even micro-yachts.

    I have only owned one boat which fits in here; my Oslo-jolle Broremann (jolle = dinghy).
    More about her later, but so far I can tell you that fitting a JR to her was a great success.


    PS: Check thisthis and this.

    Last modified: 13 Jul 2021 09:37 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
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