Open little sailboats, suited for daysailing or camping - with or without a JR

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  • 22 Jul 2021 01:03
    Reply # 10766720 on 10747848


    this is a fascinating topic. I enjoyed sailing + Camping trips with an Enterprise dinghy when I was younger and think it gave the highest yield if you divide enjoyment by cost. 

    Chesapeake Light craft offer an interesting boat with their nesting expedition dinghy. If I was younger, poorer and had fewer friends, I would probably build one. 

    In passing, I note that Roger Barnes had to be rescued at one stage. The Chesapeake craft probably would have allowed the helmsman to recover from a capsize without assistance.

    Regards to all,


  • 21 Jul 2021 15:29
    Reply # 10765541 on 10747848

    I'm with Arne on this.... the open sailing dinghy is fine for summer in France and Spain, California, the South Eastern US, etc, but sail camping in a small boat calls for some sort of shelter / cuddy, etc.   It can get very cold and wet.  You will notice a number of the sailing dinghies in Roger Barnes videos have some sort of rudimentary cabin.  For me, the real outdoors season is short and begins after school starts when the hordes of vacationers return to whence they came.    This year in particular, the US highways are absolutely filled to capacity with vacationers.  I drove a stretch of local interstate the other day, and estimated local license plates at 1 out of 8.  I prefer to get out and do things when I have the country more to myself.... weekdays after the main season.  September and October are by far the nicest season here, but can get cold.  I'm not a glutton for punishment... like my comfort..... or more accurately dislike unnecessary discomfort.

          Here is a link to a bunch of snap shots from the Port Townsend Wooden Boat Festival with lots of interesting craft including a junk rigged schooner dory.   Port Townsend Wooden Boat Festival

  • 18 Jul 2021 10:02
    Reply # 10759018 on 10747848
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Thanks, Graeme  for the link  -  that was a lovely video  -  so much fine filming and then editing afterwards.

    I see four big differences between the conditions shown here, and those on SW Norway:

    • 1.      Temperatures in the air and in the water
    • 2.      Only about 0.5m tide here, versus a number of metres in France.
    • 3.      No big, shallow estuaries here. The waters are generally deep, but some areas are strewn with skerries.
    • 4.      The wind gusts behind the mountains here would not invite to making fast the sheet, the way Roger Barnes did.

    Those people on the video surely were good at making use of the conditions. Since getting a little wet is no big deal there, they could vade around with their boat behind them. And then there is the terror of the tide  -  like being the slave of an alarm clock. That didn’t appear to put them off at all.

    If you look at videos of open boat cruising in Norway, you will find much more dressed-up crews. Staying dry is quite essential. Going for a swim is quite normal, but then it is back into dry clothes (and using wool underwear). The boats are often light enough to be pulled ashore at night. Next morning we don’t have to wake up with the boats afloat  -  or find there is 200m to the sea...
    Anyway, this is not for comfort junkies like me...

    The dimensions of Roger’s boat are actually quite close to those of my proposed Buddy design. His boat’s open layout may give better use of the space, but on the open fjords here, with the fetches varying between a couple of cables to 5, 10 or 15 NM, I would prefer a half-decked design to help keeping the stores and myself dry.

    I was out for a spin in Ingeborg on Friday. It started with a light breeze, but soon the wind picked up and became a brisk F5 with plenty of short, steep chop, so we reefed and reefed and reefed again. Even with only four of the seven panels up, Ingeborg ‘flew’ at 6.5knots, which is around the limit for her 20’ waterline. I surely was glad I was not in a light, open, unballasted boat then...


    Last modified: 18 Jul 2021 10:10 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 18 Jul 2021 00:14
    Reply # 10758504 on 10747848

    Here's something very different from the Norwegian Fjords. 

    I guess everyone is familiar with Roger Barnes and his youtube series.

    If these videos don't inspire camper/cruising and shallow, muddy estuaries, I don't know what will.

    There's also a dimension (the lovely little villages up these creeks) which we rarely see in New Zealand either.

    We have the mud though. Tip of the month: first thing, before going ashore, is: fill all your spare buckets with water and line them up in the cockpit ready for when you return. You'll be pleased you did.

    Last modified: 18 Jul 2021 00:25 | Anonymous member
  • 17 Jul 2021 11:17
    Reply # 10757619 on 10747848
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Buddy is meant to be a lightly ballasted dinghy for half-sheltered waters  -  a gentleman’s day-boat  -  if that term still exists. Making a 180° capsize is not an option. A full capsize will ruin the day unless one has donned a wet-suit or dry-suit (Stavanger is at 59° N. latitude).

    Buddy would have to be tested and prove that it has a dependable positive righting moment at 90°.

    One thing I learned from Broremann, was the usefulness of having a defined fore deck, side decks and aft deck, and then a squarish cockpit in the middle. This let me quickly fit a cockpit cover after each sail, and let me return to a dry boat next time. Later models of the Oslojolle actually came with self-bailing, but these were no good for cruising. Any access to stores was of the key-hole type, and sitting in the cockpit was like sitting in a bathtub. Definitely a wet-suit boat.

    The idea with Buddy is to both have buoyancy and dry storage under the foredeck and aft deck. There will be access through 50-60cm wide circular deck hatches. These need not be of the submarine-tight type: With the boat on its side, these hatches will still be above the water. The wet storage will be under the cockpit seats (hinged), and these will have room for the Broremann-style cockpit cover, tent, fish-rods etc.


    Last modified: 21 Jul 2021 20:21 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 16 Jul 2021 12:37
    Reply # 10755656 on 10747848

    Thanks David, I think I might give the combined buoyancy and storage idea a try.

    Last modified: 16 Jul 2021 12:38 | Anonymous member
  • 15 Jul 2021 20:14
    Reply # 10754038 on 10747848

    Hi Graeme, 

    The earlier Wayfarers like mine have combined air buoyancy and storage tanks fore and aft for storage of luggage.

    My Mk2 has a large removable lid on top for easier access to the aft inside.

    It is sealed against ingress of water by a built up lip at the edge of the opening, outside of which is a thick and wide self adhesive closed cell rubber strip stuck to the deck onto which the lid sits, the lid being held closed at the front by 3 over centre clips and at the rear by 3 sliding brackets which push downward as they are tightened.

    There is a check which can be carried out by blowing air into the tank and using a pipe full of water to check if the tank is leaking.

    I did a check on mine after a few years of not, and found very little leakage. So large hatches can be sealed quite well against water ingress and as you said, if the tank is also full of light stuff, it is harder for the water to get in.

    Hope that is of some use.

    Dave D.

    Last modified: 15 Jul 2021 20:16 | Anonymous member
  • 15 Jul 2021 08:16
    Reply # 10752725 on 10747848

    Arne I totally agree with the need for places to store luggage on a camper-cruiser.

    Preferably the storage compartments should be water tight. I am facing a quandary with Little Dipper, and not sure what to do next. I built side buoyancy tanks - as low as the very low thwarts, but raised amidships to match the height of the off-centreboard case, and to improve buoyancy.

    There is more than enough volume there for storage - and probably more than enough volume for them to also act as buoyancy tanks.

    I was planning for them to be dual purpose, by making the tops fully watertight, and making the insides accessible via the usual inspection ports. Trouble is, it is awkward to stow and unpack gear through those inspection ports. I have not yet sealed down the tops, and I am re-considering.

    I am wondering now about just making rain-proof hinged lids, at least for those larger midships tanks, and filling the space with clothing, sleeping bag, air mattress etc in waterproof bags - all those things with fairly low density - and filling up any surplus space with a couple of inflatable buoyancy bags which I am hoping will take up the appropriate shape when inflated, and displace that surplus volume.  I was thinking that in the unlikely event of a capsize, there would still be enough useful buoyancy and even if a bit of water got into the tanks, the "dry" items would stay dry in their waterproof bags. (Heavy things like water bottles to be locked down under the floorboards).

    If anyone has comments or a better idea, I would like to know.

  • 14 Jul 2021 09:13
    Reply # 10750258 on 10747848
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Graeme: Your recent tests of stability of these 8-foot tenders surely speak for having buoyancy in the sides.

    However, on Buddy I would not go as far as making the cockpit seats as closed tanks. I need them for storing stuff, for instance the bulky cockpit cover with its arced battens. As long as the seats prevent large amounts of water from entering in an 60° knock-down, I am happy enough. The combination of some fixed ballast and the high-sitting volume of the boat should help us self-right. Note how the 5-plank vessel will have its lifting volume much higher up when sitting on its side: If the Halibut model had been decked over, it would have had quite a bit righting moment left at 90° heel.
    Such knock-downs are not to happen frequently with the intended inshore use of Buddy. The inconvenience of having to bail out some water, is a fine reminder: Memento mori.

    The seat fronts of the cockpit will not be watertight, but they will be ‘slosh-tight’, so free water will not slosh from side to side. It would be easy to make hinge-up seat fronts, to turn the seats into two comfortable berths.

    The internal part of the ballast is meant to sit a little forward, so that the boat will trim right with one person on board, sitting at the helm.

    I am not sure which came first of Halibut or Buddy. My first study of the 5-plank pram was actually the 6m lightweight keelboat, shown below. It taught me how to find the volume, and with the use of constant deadrise, I could even develop the planks, even if my QCAD program is not meant for designing boats.


    PS: Although this discussion could well have continued on the ‘junket boat’ thread, I felt that this quite big matter deserved its own space.

    Last modified: 14 Jul 2021 09:20 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 14 Jul 2021 00:43
    Reply # 10749561 on 10747848

    Arne: Buddy would make a very nice little “junket boat” and her dish-shaped” hull is very interesting to compare with the 4m SibLim hull, which is also 5-plank but quite a different shape.

    I expect Buddy is a stretched version of Halibut – which I also enjoyed to compare with David’s “baby SibLim”. (Scale model building proved Halibut easy to plank up, and trials show that Halibut is a big, buoyant and powerful dinghy, though in the event of a capsize I would prefer the side buoyancy tanks which David gave to baby SibLim).

    On that subject, if you are going to have side seats on Buddy, would it be worth considering building them in as side tanks? This seems to widen the stability range considerably, and might even let Buddy recover from a knockdown with very little water to be bailed out. I suppose it would also suit some people, then, to shift the centreboard case out to one of those side bulkheads.

    Another comment – I like the ballasted swinging centreboard (I am mulling over the possibility of making a ferrocement one) – but I once owned a boat with a swinging centreboard and a fixed rudder – a story that did not end well when I ran over a reef one day. Buddy would be a good case for your very clever transom-hinge kick-up rudder.

    Well, I might as well display Little Dipper which is a Welsford designed Golden Bay 3-plank skiff, 3.9 m x 1.3 m

    She was designed as much for rowing as sailing – I am in the process of converting her to a junk rigged over-nighter – what I call a “junket boat”. There are more details on this, and Gary’s Bolger Cartopper – and also of course more details on 4m SibLim and Arne’s Buddy  - on another related and lengthy thread: “Junket Boats” in the technical forum.

    Thinking about possible sail plan forms for Little Dipper. The one on the left is the designer's.

    Last modified: 14 Jul 2021 03:53 | Anonymous member
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