Pondering Seablossom's rig

  • 19 Mar 2013 18:10
    Reply # 1246623 on 726309
    I too have misgivings about using polycarbonate for anything other than windows. Even there, it has low scratch resistance and low UV resistance. Although it is tough and has a high impact resistance, it is not very strong, and is considered to be between the "commodity plastics" and the "engineering plastics" for mechanical properties. Due to its  subsceptibility to environmental stress cracking, its use is limited to low stress applications. I can't envisage a design of masthead that would work, using polycarbonate. 
  • 19 Mar 2013 14:52
    Reply # 1246443 on 1245095
    Deleted user
    Paul Thompson wrote:Personally, I'd stick to steel and aluminum. Your whole rig hangs from the masthead crane and it's not a place that I'd choice to experiment. While polycarbonate might be strong, I doubt that is abrasion resistance is very good or even just good.
    I'll take your advice under advisement.  I'm inclined to disagree. I think you'd wear through metal a lot quicker.  PC is one of those plastics used as bushings.
    As it.turned out the guy didn't take it that I had.given him a final order on the aluminum tubes.  When he sent me a final price the tubes plus shipping was going to be over $600 US.  Eek.  I'm back to seriously considering making my battens out of 2x4 lumber (what do you call a 2x4 in metric?  Do they make some equivalent?  ) cut into 5 mm strips, then laminated with epoxy to about 38 - 40 mm thickness.  By laminating my battens in this way I can prevent any grain weakness from carrying through the body of any batten.  I dunno - I just don't have the six hundred bucks to spare right now.
    Last modified: 19 Mar 2013 18:10 | Deleted user
  • 18 Mar 2013 03:48
    Reply # 1245095 on 726309
    Personally, I'd stick to steel and aluminum. Your whole rig hangs from the masthead crane and it's not a place that I'd choice to experiment. While polycarbonate might be strong, I doubt that is abrasion resistance is very good or even just good.
    Last modified: 18 Mar 2013 03:48 | Anonymous member
  • 17 Mar 2013 23:21
    Reply # 1244924 on 726309
    Deleted user
    Polycarbonate is the stuff they make bulletproof "glass" and the bubble windshields on jet fighters out of.  When I say it's bulletproof I'm not exaggerating.  It's way tougher than the aluminum mast will be.  It's not brittle, either - when it does give it slowly bends.  I saw a quarter inch sheet of it, years ago, that had been shot with a 38 special at about fifteen feet at the Kansas City police shooting range, and just had a small dent in it.
    It takes somewhat higher temperatures than the usual 3D printing plastic filaments, but it's still within the range of typical 3D printers.  Enough filament to make a masthead crane will cost about 90 bucks US, but I'll have a lot left over after I make the crane.
    It would be easy to make one out of ABS, it's a commonly printed plastic and it's strong enough, but it can't stand UV.  So much for that.
     I still need to get better at drafting software to accomplish this.  I just ordered a book.
  • 17 Mar 2013 23:21
    Reply # 1244923 on 726309
    Hey Jeff -  thought you were going metric.  And I just love your 16' by 50 mm Paul.  Good to know that we are such a multi-lingual crowd!

    Great to see Sea Blossom and sails instead of engines.  The Forest Green should look pretty sharp.
  • 17 Mar 2013 18:13
    Reply # 1244766 on 1244751
    Jeff McFadden wrote:OK, I ordered 2" x 1/16" x 20 feet, 8 total.  That's 7 for the battens plus one to extend the yard.
    The existing yard is 16 feet long, wood, inverted T section, with the existing sail laced to it.  I'm going to lace a 2" x 1/16" x 20 foot aluminum tube to the bottom of it, sticking out 2' on each end, and call it good.  If I find out otherwise I do.
    Still got to move the step, finish (well, ok, make) the partners, make a masthead crane which I think I'm going to print out of polycarbonate on my 3D printer as an overlapping plug that stuffs into the top of my aluminum mast, overlaps the edges to provide a weatherproof seal, and either has the necessary bosses on it for hanging blocks, or a webbing "crown" with loops to hang soft shackles & blocks on.  Got the sail cloth and thread but I need to buy some plywood sheets to put on horses to use as a worktable for the layout and sewing.  Bought forest green Odyssey III sail cloth.

    That sounds good, Not sure about 3D printing and polycarbonate as I do not know enough about it. One thing for sure, what ever you do regarding the masthead, it must be beyond doubt as if anything goes wrong there, you'll be at least chin deep in the brown sticky stuff.
  • 17 Mar 2013 17:42
    Reply # 1244751 on 726309
    Deleted user
    OK, I ordered 2" x 1/16" x 20 feet, 8 total.  That's 7 for the battens plus one to extend the yard.
    The existing yard is 16 feet long, wood, inverted T section, with the existing sail laced to it.  I'm going to lace a 2" x 1/16" x 20 foot aluminum tube to the bottom of it, sticking out 2' on each end, and call it good.  If I find out otherwise I do.
    Still got to move the step, finish (well, ok, make) the partners, make a masthead crane which I think I'm going to print out of polycarbonate on my 3D printer as an overlapping plug that stuffs into the top of my aluminum mast, overlaps the edges to provide a weatherproof seal, and either has the necessary bosses on it for hanging blocks, or a webbing "crown" with loops to hang soft shackles & blocks on.  Got the sail cloth and thread but I need to buy some plywood sheets to put on horses to use as a worktable for the layout and sewing.  Bought forest green Odyssey III sail cloth.
  • 16 Mar 2013 18:43
    Reply # 1244304 on 726309
    Do be aware that while large diameters and thin walls are a good thing in terms of stiffness and keeping weight under control, it is possible to go to far. Thin wall tubes are more fragile than thick wall tubes and dents have a greater impact on structural integrity/strength. That being so, I'd not use a tube with a wall thiner than 1.5mm (1/16" or .062").

    Also while light is in general good, a little weight is no bad thing as it will help the sail come down. Just, as in all things don't over do it. On LC I'm using 50mm diameter x 1.5mm wall x 16' on the main and 50mm diameter x 1.5mm wall x 12'6" on the foresail. Thats heavy but using the same batten size for both sail makes carrying spares easier and for my coming voyage I need near unbreakable battens, as I will not have access to unlimited spares. 
  • 16 Mar 2013 14:54
    Reply # 1244202 on 726309
    Deleted user
    I've been working on my aluminum batten calculator. I'm not quite ready to write things up, but for the 19' or 20' lengths, I can make some recommendations based on how stiff they need to be.

    What looks like optimal stiffness to me would be 2.5" battens with a .065" wall thickness, OR 2" battens with .125" wall thickness.

    I'm working on similar calculations with yards...I think I'm getting similar results to what Paul is finding for you.


  • 13 Mar 2013 21:23
    Reply # 1242014 on 1241931
    Jeff McFadden wrote:Would that be number 2 counting from the top or the bottom?  Do I need a heavier spar for a "boom" or is that just another batten as somebody, maybe Slieve, has said in the past?
    Depending on its length (I need to measure) my existing yard may do.  It's wood and very heavy, but I'm rapidly approaching 20 grand in this ten thousand dollar boat and I'm getting stretched pretty thin.  I'd try to reuse my old battens but they're 1" plastic pipe, which I define as "not real."
    No need to translate to Imperial measurements.  I'm getting to where it's the Imperial, not the metric, that drives me crazy.  Google will do the conversion in the blink of an eye.
    Somewhere I failed to see the "b" dimension.  20 footers is what I can reasonably buy, so that will be it unless it seems necessary to go to 25 to get the extra inches for the one batten.
    It's second from the top. No specific need to make the "boom batten" heavier but many do as a little weight here does not harm. However technically, it's just another batten. 20ft lenghts is fine, just cut them to size. 20ft fot the long batten is also OK, if you want the 2", just make wooden plugs to extend it 1" on each side.

    The "b" is just standard PJR terminology.
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