Ingeborg, Arne's Marieholm IF

  • 30 Apr 2018 10:04
    Reply # 6125906 on 3032430
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    A chilly April outing in Ingeborg.

    Yesterday a friend, Erik, sailing a big ‘Storm 19’ dinghy from Swallow Boats, called me and wanted to meet on the fjord for a little photo session. That suited me fine as I was on my way to the harbour.  Hopefully, this link to this Google photo folder lets you see the result.

    The wind was 10-12 knots, I guess, just below needing the first reef. On the photo below we were making 6.2kts. It is amazing how my boats have (had) different characters. While the ballast-less  Frøken Sørensen would have been nervous, but fast in the conditions, Ingeborg  just leans over and romps along. Her 50 kg mast and around 40kg sail seem to be no problem, as she attains just below 5 kts when close-hauled. Her short waterline length with no overhangs puts limits on the top speed, though. At 6.05m it only lets her go at 5.5kts with the 6hp Tohatsu, compared to 6.3kts when my Johanna (wl=6.8m plus overhang) was pushed by a 9.9hp Yamaha.

    Still, Ingeborg is a lovely boat, and probably beats every boat I have had when close-hauled in some wind. I sometimes wish I had given her a 40sqm sail for the light summer winds. Compared to when sailing Malena (wl 6.00m, 1400kg, 32sqm), it feels like sailing with one reef...

    A final thing: The FUP line now works fine without getting jammed as the sail is furled. Still, on a sail with heavier battens, I can see Graham’s point in having a two-part FUP, to minimise friction.



    Last modified: 14 May 2018 12:27 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 18 Apr 2018 01:28
    Reply # 6108346 on 3032430

    Hi Arne.  Your drawing looks intriguing and I will have to think about that.  I was intending to take the upper FUP straight from A to C, then forward to D like the lower FUP.  You may be right that the small saddles were the cause of the problem.  It was easy to take up the slack for the lower two panels, but after that the line seemed to get trapped by the nested battens, which fall randomly, one this side, one that side etc.  I think the FUP has a lot of potential though and is worth sorting out.  You can stop fan ups when doing intentional gybes, by hauling in the sheet and doing a controlled gybe, but that still leaves accidental gybes in rough conditions, which are not uncommon when rolling heavily under self steering in rough seas, or in sudden wind shifts..  Besides, it will be nice to gybe with a slack sheet when you wish to.

  • 17 Apr 2018 16:21
    Reply # 6107499 on 3032430
    Anonymous member (Administrator)


    Is this what you have in mind, or was the upper FUP also meant to be passed over blocks C and D (instead of B and F)? I think the way I have drawn it, will give the best guarantee against friction traps. Anyway, I think the main friction problem stemmed from you using those small steel saddles.

    For my own part, I will try out my modified, single FUP system. If I still get friction problems, I will change it to your version.



  • 17 Apr 2018 00:29
    Reply # 6101969 on 3032430

    Hi Arne, that is interesting news about your FUP developments.  I am a big fan of the FUP, but unrigged mine due to the line getting trapped.  I could get it to render usually but it was a struggle and I was concerned for what it might be dong to the stitching on the sail.  But I am going to rerig a version of it again before going cruising this year (about the end of May I hope).  I am going to use two lines of different colours, one starting at the second batten up from the boom and one from the fourth batten up.  Both will come back to the same cleat so can be hauled together.  They will pass outside of everything on the sail.  The idea being, if I only have one panel reefed, I wont be worried about a fan up, especially with the slack taken out of the two lines.  When two panels are down, the lower line is snugged up tight and those two battens cannot go anywhere.  The upper line has the slack taken out of it.  Then the third panel is not a problem since the ones below it cannot lift, and when I get the fourth panel down, both lines are snugged up tight.  That only leaves the three fanned panels, that can come to no harm if they fan up, and I am unlikely to be more deeply reefed than that when coastal cruising and picking my weather.  If I was crossing oceans, I would also put a downhaul on the yard.

  • 15 Apr 2018 16:23
    Reply # 6099836 on 3032430
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Reducing friction problems of the FUP (Fan-up preventer).
    (Also see posting on the FUP subject below, in October 2017)

    Today I made use of the calm weather to partly hoist Ingeborg’s sail in her berth. I had already prepared two strings to replace the aux batten parrels on batten 3 and 4. The idea, as shown on the photo, was to make them slacker and thus reduce the chance for the FUP-line to be trapped between furled battens. In addition, the FUP line is now skipping batten 5 and 6.  As mentioned before, the line is now also passed outside the lazyjacks. Together this should reduce the chance of having the FUP line trapped.

    To be dead sure it will never happen, one has better taking in the slack FUP line as the sail is furled. This is what we do, anyway, during sailing, as we reef one or two panels at a time. I guess we will have to live with this little hassle that the FUP adds. I will much rather deal with that than having a real fan-up to deal with.

    Your choice.



  • 15 Apr 2018 09:56
    Reply # 6099727 on 3032430
    Anonymous member (Administrator)


    no, the drogue was towed from the stern, or from the lee mooring bit to be more precise. I never left the cockpit after dropping the lines in our berth. I have fitted that drogue with a permanent line, only about 4-5m long, and with a big bowline loop at its end.

    As we motored out of the inner harbour, I slipped the bowline over that port stern bit, so when we were out in open water, I just put the engine in free and tossed the little parachute over the side. With the line pulled out, the parachute opened instantly. Without a drogue, Ingeborg (just as Johanna) would coast forever, but now we were slowed down to drogue speed in a couple of boat lengths. The GPS showed that we stayed below 0.5kts (0.1-0.3 mostly). Best of all, when the sail had been hauled up, the parrels trimmed and the halyard stowed in its bag, we had still just covered a fraction of the bay. The little forward motion was still enough for Ingeborg to maintain a beam to close reach with the tiller locked a bit to leeward (as on that photo).
    A bonus was that I only needed the smallest parachute for this particular job. At a square section of only 0.125sqm, it is not more than 1.5 times the area of a big bucket.

    I made one of that parachute’s six sections from a different colour to see if the thing rotated under load. However, it stayed so deep and I was too busy at the halyard, so I never noticed. Still, it cannot have spun fast, at least, for when I recovered it after raising the sail, there was no sign of twist on the line.

    Halyard hauler! Thanks, Annie, I wondered what to call that thing.
    No, my hands are not big. On earlier boats, I used ropes with multifilament in the outer layer, as that was so easy to grip. However, I also found that they were worn rather fast, so changed to monofilament ropes, which have proved to be much tougher and which also seem to run more easily through blocks. On the small boats, Broremann and Frøken Sørensen, it was still easy enough to haul, but on Johanna (48sqm) and Ingeborg (35sqm), I found it annoying, even with gloves. I still have the electric winch handle from Winchrite, which works perfectly well, but I like the idea of being able to raise the sail by hand, at least now and then.



    Last modified: 25 Jul 2021 22:13 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 15 Apr 2018 02:08
    Reply # 6099533 on 3032430

    Gosh, Arne, what an inventive mind you have! I assume you used your drogue over the bow.  It seems like something that will be useful for you to have.  The halyard hauler will be a boon for those with big hands.  The one time it's an advantage to have hands the size of mine is when I am handling 8mm rope: it's very comfortable for me!

    Glad to hear that spring has sprung for you.  And that you are showing a clean pair of heels to your fellow sailors.  Ingeborg sounds like a joy. 

  • 14 Apr 2018 23:29
    Reply # 6099390 on 3032430
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Today, after a long and chilly winter, something similar to spring has set in here, so I could make the first little sailtrip in Ingeborg.

    Before this first trip, I had prepared three things:

    ·         Last year, it was reported that the line for the Fan-up preventer (FUP) tended to jam if the sail was reefed or furled. I didn’t notice this on my light Frøken Sørensen, but on Ingeborg, I too notice the problem to some degree. My way of solving it has been to run the line outside the lazyjacks, and to only pass the line under the ‘aux batten parrels’ of batten 3 and 4 (from top). Today this looked very good. I will test it more and then add an appendix to the FUP write-up.

    ·         Earlier this winter I made as many as four parachute type sea anchors, ranging from 0.125 to 1.00sqm in cross section. Today I brought with me the smallest one. After having motored out of the harbour, I chucked the sea anchor over board and prepared for hoisting sail. Ingeborg stopped almost dead and let me hoist the sail without moving more than 4-6 boatlengths, and without accidentally tacking. This was a grand success and since this device is so small, it is easy to stow away together with its 4-5m long line attached. It will definitely be used when hoisting sail where space is limited.

    ·         A couple of days ago I made the shown ‘halyard handle’, mostly from 15mm plywood. I find that my hands dislike clutching to the slippery 8mm line, even with gloved hands. This device lets me haul in all the 40m of halyard without strain. The muscles used are actually the same as when rowing a boat. This device worked remarkably well, and felt ‘natural’ in use, so I guess I will go over it with sandpaper, then paint it, and finally declare it fully operational.

    All in all, a fine day on the fjord ( the boys in the Albin Express that we met and chased, may have been less impressed  -  with their own performance).

    Cheers, Arne


    Last modified: 15 Apr 2018 11:59 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 18 Oct 2017 09:49
    Reply # 5319820 on 3032430

    What I meant by batten stagger was not the usual positive (or negative!) batten stagger where battens come down fore or aft of the ones below, but from side to side inside the topping lifts, one batten to port, the next to stbd perhaps, until you have a nice "bundle".  This is what seems to trap the line.  However, my saddles were small stainless steel items and perhaps the loose parrels you mention might assist in freeing the line up.  I plan to play with it this summer when I am tied up in a marina (voyaging gobbles up all my time and energy), because I believe that if an FUP can be made to work without too much friction it will be a valuable development.

  • 18 Oct 2017 09:25
    Reply # 5319817 on 3032430
    Anonymous member (Administrator)


    after I, early in the first season, moved the sail of my Ingeborg forward, almost as far as the batten parrels allows them, there is very little batten stagger when reefing or furling that sail, so this cannot add to the friction on my boat. To me it appears that the friction is the sum of several small friction points.

    In addition to passing the line outside the topping lift (definitely a friction point), and through hoops on the boom, I will have an eye on what you call the saddles on the battens, and which I called the aux. batten parrels. They may well be made slacker, so they almost hang as a semi-circle: The reefed battens land in no particular order side by side each other, so the slacker saddles should make it easier for the FUP line to run through. As I sit here, I even wonder if I should only let the FUP pass through one or two of those saddles. However, that would be the last resort.

    I definitely think the friction problem can be solved, this or the other way, and I most certainly want to keep the FUP.


    PS: In your case, with more random batten stagger, I suggest you lengthen the saddles to keep them from binding the FUP line.

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