Alberg 30 JR Conversion

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  • 29 Oct 2024 17:38
    Reply # 13424873 on 13422163

    Thank you, Arne! I greatly appreciate your time and patience! I have learned a lot as I read back and forth through the postings, and my copy of Practical Junk Rig. I think this is a great solution with the mast in the forward hatch aperture.

    I found your article from JRA Magazine Issue 76 about your mast step and partners on Ingeborg, and though I initially dismissed a more forward mast location, I am going to take a closer look that the previous thread regarding the Alberg 30 conversion with the mast step further forward. I had been concerned about the bury depth, but I think this can be resolved.

    I’m interested in comparing your last sketch with the AR 2.05 sketch you did for the mast in the forward position, but with 40 square meters of sail instead of 43.5 square meters. I think this could bring the sail down, and put the CE very close to the CE of the Bermudan rig.

    https://junkrigassociation.org/resources/photo/uTljNHN_T9II2VPclRSi4a0_AU23C3w34fu1_6KuiGi8tTD-h5QI6BUBrmBnzaRckjOKxGYdv4eMrzQ56kqgdw2


  • 29 Oct 2024 10:49
    Reply # 13424664 on 13424658

    (PS: can the word 'rake' be used as a verb, as I have done?)

    Arne


    Arne

    Yes indeed.  

    My Concise Oxford Dictionary has rake as a noun and also as

    a transitive verb (ie taking an object) as in 'he raked the mast forwards'

    and 

    an intrasitive verb (ie not taking an object) as in 'the bow of the ship rakes forward'.  

    As it happens you didn't use rake as a verb in your post , but only as a noun.  

    Please be assured that you written English is better than many if not most native English speakers.  

    And of course your knowledge of junk rigs is 'Nulli Secundus' .  

    Please keep up the good work.  We are all grateful.

    Yours aye  Jonathan 

  • 29 Oct 2024 09:24
    Reply # 13424658 on 13422163
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    David,
    generally I am not too fond of forward-raking masts, unless deck layout demands it. However, you may have a point here. Even this little 1.5° adjustment will let me move the halyard’s slingpoint back to the 5% point (not important).

    What I would have done, is to rig the mast plumb, but have a slot in the mast step to let me  adjust the mast rake. It takes less than 50mm movement at the step to achieve 1.5° mast rake.

    Just a thought.

    (PS: can the word 'rake' be used as a verb, as I have done?)

    Arne

    (full size diagram in Arne's sketches, section 8, photo 17)

    Last modified: 29 Oct 2024 09:28 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 29 Oct 2024 07:38
    Reply # 13424639 on 13422163

    That'll do nicely, Arne. Perhaps a degree or two of forward mast rake, to reduce the balance even further? 

  • 28 Oct 2024 22:03
    Reply # 13424507 on 13422163
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Well, now I have given it another try, hopefully the last one. By shortening the battens and increasing the AR, I managed to keep the sail area on 40sqm.

    The mast balance is now 28.2%. I chose to go back to the 60° yard angle as this pushes the CE a little further forward than with 55° yard.

    Personally, I would not be afraid of trying this rig.

    Have a look, folks.

    Arne

    (full size diagram under Arne's sketches, section 8, photo16)

  • 28 Oct 2024 15:11
    Reply # 13424277 on 13422163

    Thanks, Arne.  If we were to reduce the sail area down to 40 square meters, and increase the aspect ratio a little, could that bring things into better balance?

    As a Bermudan rig the boat carries 38.1 square meters of sail.

  • 28 Oct 2024 10:24
    Reply # 13424181 on 13422163
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    This was difficult.
    I found that if  the mast is to go through that hatch, the mast balance in the sail would almost touch 30% to keep the CE of the sail in the same position as in the Bermudan rig.
    If the boat were mine, I would be very tempted to try it, but I would not push that sail onto others before it has been tried.
    That mast position almost require a SJR rig, which I know too little about.

    Arne

    PS: Anyway, I let you have a look.


    (Full size diagram in Arne's Sketches, section 8, photo 15)

    Last modified: 28 Oct 2024 14:09 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 27 Oct 2024 23:44
    Reply # 13424078 on 13422163

    Thanks, David.  I appreciate the feedback.  I think I will be pursuing the more straightforward sloop alternative, with the mast stepped through the forward hatch. I have a very robust retrofitted deck beam (under the existing mast step) just aft of the hatch, and I plan to use it to provide additional support to the mast partners.

    I will have my mast calculations reviewed this week, but based on my rudimentary calculations, using some data from the previous thread, for a 6063 aluminum light pole mast (34 foot LAP) show an 8 inch OD with a 0.25 inch wall yields a 2.6 factor of safety, and a 10 inch OD with a 0.188 inch wall yields a 3.1 factor of safely.  I think I'm in the right ballpark. 

  • 27 Oct 2024 08:21
    Reply # 13423900 on 13422163

    I'm somewhat reluctant to comment on rigs for this boat again, after the way that my suggestions of erring on the side of prudence and good seamanlike sense weren't well received last time; but since my name has been mentioned, perhaps I should.

    The problem with a Badger-like rig on this boat is that when the mainsail area decreases relative to the foresail area, both masts need to move aft in the boat. I think that the mainmast is likely to clash with the sliding main hatch. A PJR distribution of sail areas, 67/33, would seem to put the mainmast just forward of this interference, with the smaller foremast being well forward and clear of the V berths. This is a practical possibility.

    Yet I would question whether it's necessary to go for a schooner rig. 450 sq ft in a single sail, on a mast stepped through the forehatch area, seems to be reasonable and practical, without impacting the accommodation too badly. I think I'd favour it, using one of the 40ft hurricane-proof flagpoles you mention. Possibly the 8 inch thicker-walled variant (subject to verifying by calculation)?

    Last modified: 27 Oct 2024 09:11 | Anonymous member
  • 26 Oct 2024 10:57
    Reply # 13423707 on 13423400
    Anonymous wrote:

    The Alberg 30 was actually discussed four years ago.

    The Junk Rig Association - Alberg 30 Conversion Viability


    Arne

    Thanks, Arne.  I would like to explore what David Tyler suggested in this thread- The Alberg 30 as a Junk Schooner.  I want the rig to be offshore capable, and I like the idea of spreading the loads, and bringing down the CE.  The boat seems right on the cusp in terms of sail area and size, and could be both a sloop or a schooner.

    Attached are a few drawings of the junk schooner rig applied to a Benford dory style boat of about the same displacement. At 500 square feet of sail, this seems on the high end, but reasonable for the Alberg 30.  

    What does the group think?

    3 files
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