Halyard attachment - where on the yard?

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  • 09 Jul 2012 09:50
    Reply # 1002174 on 1000913
    Deleted user
    Brian Kerslake wrote:Is that you, Edward? Do you still get 'access denied' even when logged in just as you (ie not as honsec)?
    Hi Brian,
    Yes it was me, but now all sorted.  Just a question of up-dating my preferred email address.  Apologies for my incompetance!
  • 08 Jul 2012 21:07
    Reply # 1000913 on 994327
    Deleted user
    Is that you, Edward? Do you still get 'access denied' even when logged in just as you (ie not as honsec)?
  • 07 Jul 2012 11:57
    Reply # 999768 on 997903
    Anonymous
    Arne Kverneland wrote:

                                                                                Stavanger, Friday

                    Moving the sling-point on Edmond Dantes

    The sun was a willing helper yesterday so the camber (plain barrel cut style) in each panel can be seen here and here. Edmond performed very well with this sail.

    Arne

    wish I could see the pictures.  Keep getting a message " access denied",
    even logged in as 'honsec'??
  • 06 Jul 2012 11:37
    Reply # 998039 on 994327
    Looks great Arne.
  • 06 Jul 2012 08:48
    Reply # 997903 on 994327
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

                                                                                Stavanger, Friday

                    Moving the sling-point on Edmond Dantes

    Yesterday we had a second testsail of Edmond Dantes’ new sail. Before takeoff we moved the sling-point about 15-20cm forward, to just aft of the midpoint. Hoisting went well and also furling, with less negative batten stagger and still no tail-heavy sail. Now we also had space enough to get the luff of the lowest panel hauled taut.

    As for Hong Kong parrels, we first tried hoisting without them set up. Big diagonal creases in most panels. Then we pulled on the (almost) throat hauling parrel, acting on the yard and batten 3. This wiped out most of the creases, but not all, so we set up the HK parrels. With the throat hauling parrel in use it seems that the Hong Kong parrels are taking only light loads and only do the final fine-trimming of the panels.

    The sun was a willing helper yesterday so the camber (plain barrel cut style) in each panel can be seen here and here. Edmond performed very well with this sail.

    Arne

  • 05 Jul 2012 23:00
    Reply # 996958 on 994327
    I have fitted my sling point (an eyebolt) at 50% but the forward end of the yard has a little more weight in it which may help. I hope to test fit the mast and possibly part rig the sail in August.
  • 05 Jul 2012 11:48
    Reply # 996555 on 994327
    Deleted user
    David, Thank you for the advice. Although the mast is not yet in I am reluctant to put the sail on the ground in the yard so I think I will wait until the mast is in then follow your suggestion. Today would have been perfect as there is no wind and strangely enough no rain so far. I will try and get the mast in next week and then pray for good weather.
  • 04 Jul 2012 21:11
    Reply # 995667 on 994327
    Peter,
    It's been quite a long time since I had the same design of sail on Tystie, and I can't remember how much drift there was between the halyard blocks. This is what will limit how far up you can move the sling point. I'm not sure that you can go up to the 60% point. A trial is going to be needed. 
    • If the mast is not yet in, you could lay it on the ground and put the sail and yard on top of it in the right position. Then you can take a measurement.
    • If the mast is in, you could fix the sling plate on with two rivets at, say, 55% of the sail head length (ignoring any extra yard length that you might have at the lower end). Hoist the sail very carefully on a flat calm day, and see that you have enough drift between the blocks. If/when all is OK, complete the riveting.
    • You could put a second eyeplate (quite a strong one) at the 60% point anyway, because it helps to have the yard hauling parrel as high as you can get it, depending on available mast length (the greater the distance you have between the yard hauling parrel and the throat hauling parrel, the better the peaking-up leverage). Then you could try a rope span between that and the sling plate at 50%, before moving the sling plate up to a better position.
  • 04 Jul 2012 12:10
    Reply # 995296 on 994327
    Deleted user
    Arne, many thanks for your thoughts. My yard is fitted with a track so as I see it I would have to put in some eyes in the sail material to allow a rope to be put around the yard. Alternatively, I could attached two eye plates at one third and two thirds from the bottom of the yard ( as David has done) and attach a rope as you suggest to find the optimum position for the sling plate. 
    Last modified: 04 Jul 2012 12:11 | Deleted user
  • 04 Jul 2012 11:27
    Reply # 995259 on 994327
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

                                                                          Stavanger, Wed.

                                                       That sling-point

    David and Peter

    I have found that getting the sling-point right is important, and not always easy. On the more high AR sails like those on the schooner Samson or my little Broremann (AR=2.15) it is no problem. Here the sail goes up and comes down perfectly and will also accept a bit tug in the sheets while hoisting.

    Not so on Johanna and Edmond Dantes (AR=1.87). On low AR sails the CG of the sail generally sits further aft of the mast top, angle-wise.

    The dilemma is like this (I think):

    If I fit the sling-point aft of the middle of the yard, Johana’s fanned-top sail goes up very nicely by lifting the peak and fanning up the top section first. However, when the sail is fully up, even on the 70° yard the halyard will point a lot aft with the sail fully hoisted. When I start dropping the sail, this halyard angle will lead to about 25cm forward movement of the sail at the first reef. This I have compensated for by cutting Johanna’s and ED’s sail 25cm short at the clew. However, if the sling point is set too far aft, the sail will continue to move forward as next panel(s) comes down until the halyard goes vertical or the batten parrels limits the movement (..forget about the maths of batten stagger in PJR - it doesn’t work like that with fully cambered panels...)

    If we on the other hand fit the sling-point forward of the middle, at some point the throat will lift first instead of the peak. This not only looks bad, but may even get you in trouble with the peak falling inside the lazyjacks. This is particularly problematic if it happens while lowering the sail.

    In both cases of sling-point positioning the situation can be kept under control with a light tug on the throat parrel, but that calls for another hand and is very awkward when hoisting the sail.

    (..on Johanna and ED the masts are a bit too short and this adds to the fun...)

    The trick is to fit the sling-point just far enough aft to avoid a "tailheavy" sail. This will hopefully lead to an acceptably low friction from the batten parrels, moderate negative batten stagger when reefing (only with the first reef) and lets one drop the sail quickly without needing to use the throat hauling parrel.

    I think I have achieved that delicate balance in Johanna’s sail. In practice when hoisting and lowering her sail, I take care to have slack sheets. Only when the throat h. parrel and yard h. parrel have been set up,(after hoisting) do I touch the sheets. When furling the sail, I mostly do it in the middle of a tack, just as the sheets go slack.

    I guess I could reef downwind with the sail working (auto-pilot or a crew needed) by easing the halyard and by keeping the sail peaked up with the throat hauling parrel, but for my inshore sailing I rather let go the tiller, and when the sheets go slack, I drop the panel quickly, adjust the parrels and then grab the tiller again.

    Arne

    PS: Some of this may be useful on the low AR fanned sails too, so be prepared to do a bit moving of the sling-point until you get it right. As little as 10cm may make the difference.

    PPS: Peter, could i suggest that you use a rope sling at first and save the drilling until you have got it right?

     

     

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