The Electric Hobbit

  • 15 Feb 2020 18:25
    Reply # 8748936 on 8748752
    Anonymous wrote:

    Of course, a main engine or in-built genset will have sound-absorbing material lining their enclosures. A deck box lined with the same material, to enclose the Honda, and to keep rain and spray off it?


     I think a deck box as you describe it,  is a good idea. I have seen examples on YouTube.

    Arne is right, it's easy for us not directly involved to come up with more problems than solutions.  The comments about noise were intended to help find a solution that is better for you and those around you.  As a fellow Canadian, I'd like to take the opportunity to say sorry  :-)  For the first year you'll have enough to do already, so what follows below are just ideas to potentially help refine things subsequently should you find the noise problematic.

    I wonder if you could also use the deck box to help direct the exhaust over board, maybe like with a propane locker?  Here are some ideas to mull over:

    -You'd like to get the heat out of the enclosure, keep the sound in and keep the water out.  I'd put the air outlet at the top of the box, but then send it back down a double-walled side with a series of offset 45 degree baffles that redirect and absorb the sound.  This lets you draw the hottest air from the top of the enclosure, and put the outlet at the bottom where it is easier to direct overboard.  The air inlet would be the opposite, grab outside air at the top and then baffle it to the bottom of the enclosure, maybe with some drain holes to deal with any possible water incursion.  I'm sure there are tons of online resources for building a sound enclosure for a Honda 2000i.  Besides soundproofing and directing the exhaust overboard, such an arrangement might let you run the generator in conditions when it might not otherwise be content, such an enclosure could probably shrug off a wave, and should also reduce the spray the engine would otherwise ingest.

    - I just finished installing some 120mm computer cooling fans for our fridge compressor.  Noctua makes some that move lots of air, use virtually no power, but importantly for this application are IP67 dust and waterproof.

    -The Honda has a 12V DC output that could be used to run a fan or fans independent of the AC.  However, this output is unregulated and electrically noisy, so the electronic computer fan above might not like that.  Two solutions are, use a simple DC motor like a bilge fan (uses more power, but still within the limits of the 2000i DC system), or use a DC-DC converter to feed clean power to the computer fan. I haven't used this particular DC converter, but have used similar ones in the past to get clean 12V power from an outboard motor.

    -line the box with the same soundproofing used for inboard engine compartments (foam, with a vinyl mass dampening layer and a shiny mylar outside).

    Quiet Nova Scotia anchorages sound lovely.  In summer, the same cannot be said here in BC from Desolation Sound south.  Perhaps that's why the sound of a generator gives me an involuntary twitch.  Bonne chance mon ami.

  • 15 Feb 2020 14:56
    Reply # 8748752 on 8748733

    Of course, a main engine or in-built genset will have sound-absorbing material lining their enclosures. A deck box lined with the same material, to enclose the Honda, and to keep rain and spray off it?


     I think a deck box as you describe it,  is a good idea. I have seen examples on YouTube.

  • 15 Feb 2020 14:53
    Reply # 8748750 on 8748722
    Anonymous wrote:

    Running in the daytime would help. It's awful on a beautiful peaceful morning or evening when people run them, especially on deck. Plywood deflection sounds interesting (no pun intended). Generator noise really carries for people on shore too… Is there much current – river or tidal – where you spend your time? There are some interesting water turbines these days.

    Shemaya


    No, there isn't much current where I spend time.

    I came across an item on YouTube where an owner had leaned 4 pieces of plywood against his generator (with corners open) deflecting the sound into the soil. That wouldn't work for us. What if they were pointing upward, corners closed, like a funnel, deflecting sound straight up? I suspect that won't work, the sound "boiling over" so to speak. It would be easy to try if I had a generator. Going a step further with this concept, what about a folding parabolic dish (like a handheld fan) with the generator at the center, pointing upward? Space providing. 

  • 15 Feb 2020 14:17
    Reply # 8748733 on 8735750
    Jim wrote:
    David wrote:

    Jim, will you use the genset on deck or are you thinking of a permanent install inside?

    I intend to use it on deck.


    Of course, a main engine or in-built genset will have sound-absorbing material lining their enclosures. A deck box lined with the same material, to enclose the Honda, and to keep rain and spray off it?
  • 15 Feb 2020 13:44
    Reply # 8748722 on 8732915

    Running in the daytime would help. It's awful on a beautiful peaceful morning or evening when people run them, especially on deck. Plywood deflection sounds interesting (no pun intended). Generator noise really carries for people on shore too… Is there much current – river or tidal – where you spend your time? There are some interesting water turbines these days.

    Shemaya

  • 15 Feb 2020 12:15
    Reply # 8748617 on 8746620

    Jim, I think you will find even the Honda is noisier than you think.  I looked at this a while back and quickly dug up some numbers again now to provide a back of the envelope example.

    ------

    Some solutions might be to charge in the middle of the day when there is more background noise and folks are otherwise distracted.  Anchor as far as you reasonably can from other boats so that the noise can drop with distance.  Apologise profusely before and after battery charging to help change the psychological state of those on the boats around you. 


    I checked out a video on YouTube entitled "Honda EU2000i Sound and Load Test". I see what you mean. It's not their present model, the EU2200i, but it can't be much different. It is, "noisy", even if it's rated among the least noisy generators of its type. Annoying.

    So yes, one needs to be careful and considerate. And, it encourages one to invest in solar power.

    BTW, a friend of mine, an architect/contractor who designs and builds passive solar houses, uses an EU2000i on his construction site. He finds the most cost-effective way to reduce noise is deflection. A piece of plywood, for example. Total suppression, however, involves mass, as in cinderblocks. Not likely in our case.

    On the bright side, crowded anchorages are not common in NS. That's one reason cruisers like it here.

    As for apologizing, that comes naturally to Canadians. 

  • 15 Feb 2020 06:00
    Reply # 8748398 on 8742363
    Deleted user
    Jan wrote:
    Well the most recent turbine I had, which burnt out at the end of January in Storm Brendan, would have contributed approxiamately zero amp-hours to the batteries overnight in such a scenario. Any anchorage worth anchoring in will hopefully not be blowing a steady force 6 or 7 which is needed for these little gennies to crank any useful power out. In fact, and it's a current best-selling model, it's controller actually uses more power than the turbine creates for most of the time. 

    You do see them quite often on cruising boats but one wonders if the owners are delighted with them, most I've talked to are not. 


    I have had experience with two wind generators on our previous yacht 'Footprints'. The first was a Chinese copy of an earlier Rutland 5 blade wind generator, the big magnet in the hub type. We had that for several years including our offshore trip to New Caledonia. I was very happy with the unit, especially considering it's landed cost of $350 into New Zealand. It supplemented our solar panels and even during nighttime when ocean crossing our batteries were generally up over 13 volts. That wind generator was destroyed in a mooring incident and the insurance company replaced it with a genuine Rutland 6 blade unit which I always felt never had the output of the Chinese copy. Regardless it did boost our batteries when there was wind, and the genuine Rutland was very quiet, whereas the Chinese unit created enough wind to act as a handy wind speed indicator. When off watch at night if I heard the wind generator screaming I knew it was time to put a reef in, if I could not hear the wind generator I knew we probably needed more sail! 
    Last modified: 15 Feb 2020 06:01 | Deleted user
  • 14 Feb 2020 09:45
    Reply # 8746788 on 8732915
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Jim,
    don’t let any of us armchair experts put you off!
    When you have launched and test-sailed Hobbit, you will soon get an idea of the electric power consumption and the use of generator. At least it will work, I’m sure.
    As for the generator noise disturbing the neighbours, I wouldn’t be too worried: They will hardly hear you through the noise of their own generators...

    Good luck!
    Arne


  • 14 Feb 2020 08:39
    Reply # 8746754 on 8732915

    Expensive yachts with in-built gensets have some very effective exhaust systems these days, with gas/water separation. Even so, the humming sound, even at low volume, is annoying to those close by, and I, for one, heave a sigh of relief when they turn them off. I cannot believe that a portable air-cooled genset can be anywhere near as quiet.

  • 14 Feb 2020 05:04
    Reply # 8746620 on 8744804
    Anonymous wrote:
    Anonymous wrote:
    You want to get out in the morning, and will need plenty of power again. A petrol genset will disturb the overnight peace.

    I went back to the Honda site again concerning noise. In particular, the EU2200i model. They claim a measured 48-57 dB noise level. Normal conversation rates about 60 dB.

    Jim, I think you will find even the Honda is noisier than you think.  I looked at this a while back and quickly dug up some numbers again now to provide a back of the envelope example.

    Generator noise is measured at a particular throttle and a particular distance.  I think the Honda is something like 1/4 throttle and 3m away.   The number for normal conversation is 60 dB, but measured at a distance of 1m.  For every doubling of the distance, the sound will drop 6 dB.  So, at 3m the generator is like someone between a raised voice and shouting.  

    There are also a few other considerations, low pitch sounds (like a generator) carry farther than higher pitched sounds.  Noise also travels particularly well over water.  Probably most important of all is the psychosocial aspect.  How annoying a sound is perceived to be has a lot to do with the state of the mind of the listener.  You will be pleased as your batteries are getting topped up with visions of power for motoring should the wind die down again tomorrow.  The folks on the boat next you are going to be thinking about how the perfect silence of the anchorage has been ruined.

    Some solutions might be to charge in the middle of the day when there is more background noise and folks are otherwise distracted.  Anchor as far as you reasonably can from other boats so that the noise can drop with distance.  Apologise profusely before and after battery charging to help change the psychological state of those on the boats around you. 

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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