The Electric Hobbit

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  • 16 Feb 2020 15:02
    Reply # 8750234 on 8748936
    Anonymous wrote:
     As a fellow Canadian, I'd like to take the opportunity to say sorry  :-)  For the first year you'll have enough to do already, so what follows below are just ideas to potentially help refine things subsequently should you find the noise problematic.


    -You'd like to get the heat out of the enclosure, keep the sound in and keep the water out.  I'd put the air outlet at the top of the box, but then send it back down a double-walled side with a series of offset 45 degree baffles that redirect and absorb the sound.  This lets you draw the hottest air from the top of the enclosure, and put the outlet at the bottom where it is easier to direct overboard.  The air inlet would be the opposite, grab outside air at the top and then baffle it to the bottom of the enclosure, maybe with some drain holes to deal with any possible water incursion.  I'm sure there are tons of online resources for building a sound enclosure for a Honda 2000i.  Besides soundproofing and directing the exhaust overboard, such an arrangement might let you run the generator in conditions when it might not otherwise be content, such an enclosure could probably shrug off a wave, and should also reduce the spray the engine would otherwise ingest.

    - I just finished installing some 120mm computer cooling fans for our fridge compressor.  Noctua makes some that move lots of air, use virtually no power, but importantly for this application are IP67 dust and waterproof.

    -The Honda has a 12V DC output that could be used to run a fan or fans independent of the AC.  However, this output is unregulated and electrically noisy, so the electronic computer fan above might not like that.  Two solutions are, use a simple DC motor like a bilge fan (uses more power, but still within the limits of the 2000i DC system), or use a DC-DC converter to feed clean power to the computer fan. I haven't used this particular DC converter, but have used similar ones in the past to get clean 12V power from an outboard motor.

    -line the box with the same soundproofing used for inboard engine compartments (foam, with a vinyl mass dampening layer and a shiny mylar outside).

    Quiet Nova Scotia anchorages sound lovely.  In summer, the same cannot be said here in BC from Desolation Sound south.  Perhaps that's why the sound of a generator gives me an involuntary twitch.  Bonne chance mon ami.

    Thanks for those ideas on box design. I'll keep them in mind. One of them is already included in the package I bought, a DC to DC converter. I have a 48V to 12V converter to keep the 12V house battery charged. That would power the fans underway.  BTW, when the system is not being charged, the house battery is isolated from the propulsion battery bank by a switch to prevent leakage. (I'm using a circuit breaker. 30A at 65V DC max.)

    I'm thinking of having a business card made with my contact info and JRA member logo. On the back, I will have printed, "For any inconvenience, I have caused or will cause, I wish to say, "Excuse me. I'm sorry."

  • 16 Feb 2020 14:17
    Reply # 8750189 on 8749106
    Anonymous wrote:

    Hi Jim

    If you are reliant on batteries for auxiliary propulsion then of course you should have a little charging plant for emergencies.

    All of these suggested solutions apply to using your generator while in an anchorage. Like most everyone else, you shouldn't need to.

    My theory is: if you keep an eye on your batteries while you are motoring, and charge your batteries then, if necessary - then you will never arrive at an anchorage with flat batteries. 

    Your use (or not use) of a generating plant while in an anchorage is thus no different from anyone else - and you shouldn't need to.


    Yes, I see it that way. Meanwhile, I need to be mindful that, according to the battery manufacturer, they should be kept fully charged when not in use. I fully intend to have solar panels which will always be ON. So, if I motor into a peaceful anchorage with batteries half depleted, the panels can do the recharge for me, provided I stay put long enough. Time will tell. 
  • 15 Feb 2020 20:30
    Reply # 8749106 on 8732915

    Hi Jim

    If you are reliant on batteries for auxiliary propulsion then of course you should have a little charging plant for emergencies.

    All of these suggested solutions apply to using your generator while in an anchorage. Like most everyone else, you shouldn't need to.

    My theory is: if you keep an eye on your batteries while you are motoring, and charge your batteries then, if necessary - then you will never arrive at an anchorage with flat batteries. 

    Your use (or not use) of a generating plant while in an anchorage is thus no different from anyone else - and you shouldn't need to.

    Last modified: 15 Feb 2020 21:48 | Anonymous member
  • 15 Feb 2020 18:25
    Reply # 8748936 on 8748752
    Anonymous wrote:

    Of course, a main engine or in-built genset will have sound-absorbing material lining their enclosures. A deck box lined with the same material, to enclose the Honda, and to keep rain and spray off it?


     I think a deck box as you describe it,  is a good idea. I have seen examples on YouTube.

    Arne is right, it's easy for us not directly involved to come up with more problems than solutions.  The comments about noise were intended to help find a solution that is better for you and those around you.  As a fellow Canadian, I'd like to take the opportunity to say sorry  :-)  For the first year you'll have enough to do already, so what follows below are just ideas to potentially help refine things subsequently should you find the noise problematic.

    I wonder if you could also use the deck box to help direct the exhaust over board, maybe like with a propane locker?  Here are some ideas to mull over:

    -You'd like to get the heat out of the enclosure, keep the sound in and keep the water out.  I'd put the air outlet at the top of the box, but then send it back down a double-walled side with a series of offset 45 degree baffles that redirect and absorb the sound.  This lets you draw the hottest air from the top of the enclosure, and put the outlet at the bottom where it is easier to direct overboard.  The air inlet would be the opposite, grab outside air at the top and then baffle it to the bottom of the enclosure, maybe with some drain holes to deal with any possible water incursion.  I'm sure there are tons of online resources for building a sound enclosure for a Honda 2000i.  Besides soundproofing and directing the exhaust overboard, such an arrangement might let you run the generator in conditions when it might not otherwise be content, such an enclosure could probably shrug off a wave, and should also reduce the spray the engine would otherwise ingest.

    - I just finished installing some 120mm computer cooling fans for our fridge compressor.  Noctua makes some that move lots of air, use virtually no power, but importantly for this application are IP67 dust and waterproof.

    -The Honda has a 12V DC output that could be used to run a fan or fans independent of the AC.  However, this output is unregulated and electrically noisy, so the electronic computer fan above might not like that.  Two solutions are, use a simple DC motor like a bilge fan (uses more power, but still within the limits of the 2000i DC system), or use a DC-DC converter to feed clean power to the computer fan. I haven't used this particular DC converter, but have used similar ones in the past to get clean 12V power from an outboard motor.

    -line the box with the same soundproofing used for inboard engine compartments (foam, with a vinyl mass dampening layer and a shiny mylar outside).

    Quiet Nova Scotia anchorages sound lovely.  In summer, the same cannot be said here in BC from Desolation Sound south.  Perhaps that's why the sound of a generator gives me an involuntary twitch.  Bonne chance mon ami.

  • 15 Feb 2020 14:56
    Reply # 8748752 on 8748733

    Of course, a main engine or in-built genset will have sound-absorbing material lining their enclosures. A deck box lined with the same material, to enclose the Honda, and to keep rain and spray off it?


     I think a deck box as you describe it,  is a good idea. I have seen examples on YouTube.

  • 15 Feb 2020 14:53
    Reply # 8748750 on 8748722
    Anonymous wrote:

    Running in the daytime would help. It's awful on a beautiful peaceful morning or evening when people run them, especially on deck. Plywood deflection sounds interesting (no pun intended). Generator noise really carries for people on shore too… Is there much current – river or tidal – where you spend your time? There are some interesting water turbines these days.

    Shemaya


    No, there isn't much current where I spend time.

    I came across an item on YouTube where an owner had leaned 4 pieces of plywood against his generator (with corners open) deflecting the sound into the soil. That wouldn't work for us. What if they were pointing upward, corners closed, like a funnel, deflecting sound straight up? I suspect that won't work, the sound "boiling over" so to speak. It would be easy to try if I had a generator. Going a step further with this concept, what about a folding parabolic dish (like a handheld fan) with the generator at the center, pointing upward? Space providing. 

  • 15 Feb 2020 14:17
    Reply # 8748733 on 8735750
    Jim wrote:
    David wrote:

    Jim, will you use the genset on deck or are you thinking of a permanent install inside?

    I intend to use it on deck.


    Of course, a main engine or in-built genset will have sound-absorbing material lining their enclosures. A deck box lined with the same material, to enclose the Honda, and to keep rain and spray off it?
  • 15 Feb 2020 13:44
    Reply # 8748722 on 8732915

    Running in the daytime would help. It's awful on a beautiful peaceful morning or evening when people run them, especially on deck. Plywood deflection sounds interesting (no pun intended). Generator noise really carries for people on shore too… Is there much current – river or tidal – where you spend your time? There are some interesting water turbines these days.

    Shemaya

  • 15 Feb 2020 12:15
    Reply # 8748617 on 8746620

    Jim, I think you will find even the Honda is noisier than you think.  I looked at this a while back and quickly dug up some numbers again now to provide a back of the envelope example.

    ------

    Some solutions might be to charge in the middle of the day when there is more background noise and folks are otherwise distracted.  Anchor as far as you reasonably can from other boats so that the noise can drop with distance.  Apologise profusely before and after battery charging to help change the psychological state of those on the boats around you. 


    I checked out a video on YouTube entitled "Honda EU2000i Sound and Load Test". I see what you mean. It's not their present model, the EU2200i, but it can't be much different. It is, "noisy", even if it's rated among the least noisy generators of its type. Annoying.

    So yes, one needs to be careful and considerate. And, it encourages one to invest in solar power.

    BTW, a friend of mine, an architect/contractor who designs and builds passive solar houses, uses an EU2000i on his construction site. He finds the most cost-effective way to reduce noise is deflection. A piece of plywood, for example. Total suppression, however, involves mass, as in cinderblocks. Not likely in our case.

    On the bright side, crowded anchorages are not common in NS. That's one reason cruisers like it here.

    As for apologizing, that comes naturally to Canadians. 

  • 15 Feb 2020 06:00
    Reply # 8748398 on 8742363
    Jan wrote:
    Well the most recent turbine I had, which burnt out at the end of January in Storm Brendan, would have contributed approxiamately zero amp-hours to the batteries overnight in such a scenario. Any anchorage worth anchoring in will hopefully not be blowing a steady force 6 or 7 which is needed for these little gennies to crank any useful power out. In fact, and it's a current best-selling model, it's controller actually uses more power than the turbine creates for most of the time. 

    You do see them quite often on cruising boats but one wonders if the owners are delighted with them, most I've talked to are not. 


    I have had experience with two wind generators on our previous yacht 'Footprints'. The first was a Chinese copy of an earlier Rutland 5 blade wind generator, the big magnet in the hub type. We had that for several years including our offshore trip to New Caledonia. I was very happy with the unit, especially considering it's landed cost of $350 into New Zealand. It supplemented our solar panels and even during nighttime when ocean crossing our batteries were generally up over 13 volts. That wind generator was destroyed in a mooring incident and the insurance company replaced it with a genuine Rutland 6 blade unit which I always felt never had the output of the Chinese copy. Regardless it did boost our batteries when there was wind, and the genuine Rutland was very quiet, whereas the Chinese unit created enough wind to act as a handy wind speed indicator. When off watch at night if I heard the wind generator screaming I knew it was time to put a reef in, if I could not hear the wind generator I knew we probably needed more sail! 
    Last modified: 15 Feb 2020 06:01 | Anonymous member
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