Strange rig on a Virgo Voyager

  • 04 Jun 2019 23:44
    Reply # 7556059 on 7550209

    A couple of suggestions for thought and discussion.

    It is a little difficult to see from the angle of the photographs, but it could be possible to rebuild the sail into a split junk. It would need a yard and the top panel rebuilding. The existing sail below the top batten would be the mainsail part and new jiblets constructed for in front of the mast. New battens and boom would be required. I don't know if this pushes the leech of the sail too far aft for sheeting but if that is the case then, since the sail is Scotch cut, a panel could be removed from the middle of the sail (leaving the leach and luff patches in tact), and the cloth used for the jiblets.  It could be worth considering and would salvage most of the existing sail. This would also provide a much better performing  and 25% larger sail.

    The sheeting on the existing sail appears to have the power distribution wrong. I suggest that consideration be given to putting a sheetlet between the boom and first batten and connecting the tail of the sheet to this rather than directly to the boom. The next sheetlet should be moved up one batten and the top sheetlet reduced from a three batten to a two batten sheetlet. This would provide more sheeting power at the top of the sail where it is needed and less at the bottom where it is not.

    Last modified: 05 Jun 2019 00:00 | Anonymous member
  • 04 Jun 2019 13:57
    Reply # 7554956 on 7550209

    Maybe a stupid idea (if and ONLY if it turns out not to sail well) - it struck me that if the sheetlets could be attached to the battens at the other end, a new chunk cut out of each of the batten pockets and a yard added - the whole thing could be turned the other way round and it would somewhat resemble a conventional flat cut sail. 

    Last modified: 04 Jun 2019 20:31 | Anonymous member
  • 04 Jun 2019 06:48
    Reply # 7554504 on 7550209

    Thank you both.  I will admit I was hoping for something more encouraging, but faced with such agreement from two people who's opinions I value, it does look like they might need to think about some changes...

    Inga & Andy, if you're reading this, let me know how she sails with the current sail.  And I know Annie's suggestion that I help with sailmaking was made partly in a spirit of mischief, but it could be a fun project to get involved in... 

    Last modified: 04 Jun 2019 08:00 | Anonymous member
  • 02 Jun 2019 22:27
    Reply # 7551638 on 7550209
    The sail reminds me a bit of the ones that Bob Burns put on Roamer.  They weren't a great success, it has to be said.  (Yes, I know he sailed around the world, but (a) he took an awfully long time on his passages and (b) he wasn't averse to using his engine.)

    I think I would be inclined to throw a six and start again: it would be a shame if your friends were put off the rig entirel,y because of a poor example; and now that you are a bona fide sailmaker yourself, I'm sure you could help them with a new sail. :-D

  • 02 Jun 2019 16:14
    Reply # 7550349 on 7550209

    Hmmmm - Inga, shut your ears to David's comments!

    Thanks, David, for your comments.  And yes, there is a discrepancy about who made the sails.  Maybe they were designed by Peter Lucas and made by Crusader?  Or an original was Peter Lucas, and copied by Crusader?  As they are flat cut I might not be *too* concerned about Crusader's lack of junk experience.

    The negative stagger worried me too.  But with a halyard "slinging" point so far forward, it will always be so.

    I guess the critical question is how well the boat sails.  I know Inga and Andy are, even now, crossing the Thames Estuary.  So please let us know how she does!

    Update: I see from Facebook that she's sailing, and, in this small pic, looking good!

    Nicos sailing

    Last modified: 02 Jun 2019 16:19 | Anonymous member
  • 02 Jun 2019 14:47
    Reply # 7550261 on 7550209

    A few people tried "yard-less" sails like that, a long time ago, and found them to be not very good. The layout of the cloth in the top triangle is all wrong, and I can't see what the extra cringle is for, so to save the sail, I would remake the head in the conventional HM pattern, with a yard at 60 degrees to horizontal and one more batten.

    Yet as there is no angle to the horizontal on the battens in the lower part of the sail, it still won't work very well, it will have negative batten stagger. 

    I have to be brutally honest, and advise scrapping the sail and making a new one. That would be easier.

    The sketch says the sail was made by Peter Lucas, but it actually carries a Crusader Sails logo. They didn't have any expertise in making junk sails.

  • 02 Jun 2019 11:20
    Message # 7550209

    First of all, a very warm welcome to Inga and Andy.  They bought the Virgo Voyager I mentioned in a post earlier this spring, and have now joined the JRA.

    As they are new to junk, they asked me (with my grand experience of one boat!) to look at their sail.  To be honest, I couldn't make much sense of it!  My initial impression was that it looked back-to-front, but on inspection that definitely isn't the case.

    The battens in the parallelogram seem to slope downwards slightly towards the aft.  The attachments for the sheetlets are sewn into the sailcloth, so there's no doubt about which edge is the leech.  The top, triangular, panel is the most intriguing.  It is in a piece with the rest of the flat-cut sail.  There is no yard, but there are lacing holes along that short forward sloping edge.  That panel isn't actually triangular but has a short "throat"

    Among the papers were a lot of diagrams for a "Hi-power" rig that doesn't look like what we have.  And one sketch that looks much more like it.

    Has anyone seen a rig like this before?  And crucially, got any ideas about rigging it?  In particular, what to do with that cringle at what looks like the throat of the top panel?

    Overall picture

    Top of sail


    Last modified: 02 Jun 2019 11:30 | Anonymous member
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