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Albatross needs a winch (or winches) - what kind or size?

  • 07 Nov 2011 20:00
    Quote
    Reply # 744473 on 743016
    Anonymous member
    Hi Albatross,

    Not perfect for use at sea, but very practical in sheltered waters and for all those ups and downs while getting the rig sorted:

    It's easier by far to raise the sail by hauling down on the fall of the halyard at the mast. If there's nobody in the cockpit to tail the line, it's useful to have a cam cleat near the mast that will hold the sail up while you go aft to pull in the halyard that has ended up flaked on deck. If the cleat is located just so, a hard final pull will snap the rope out of the cleat, allowing you to reef and lower from the cockpit. I've used slip-knots, rolling hitches and deck cleats similarly, but requiring more trips forward.

    I got some good suggestions from a forum discussion I started here a few months ago - see "Ideal Halyards". We're still without a winch on mehitabel, but we'll experiment this summer and probably bolt something down.

    Cheers,
    Kurt
  • 07 Nov 2011 11:37
    Quote
    Reply # 744081 on 743551
    Deleted user
    Slieve McGalliard wrote:

    I don’t want to disagree with David and Ketil, but I ask you not to disregard my earlier post. It is easy to over plan and over design, particularly in an area where you have little experience. Wait until you have the boat sailing and see if you do need a winch, and also see if a small second hand one will do the job. ... With this, along with many other worries I suggest that you ‘Rush Slowly’.

    Cheers, Slieve.

    When I posted my question I pretty much knew it would go both ways, but I was hoping the consensus would be "Nah, don't bother." Thanks Fellahs because you led me to finding some good deals on Alba's possible/affordable choice if and when the time comes to winch-up.

    But now on reflection, I'll follow Slieve's advice first and see how manageable the rig is with brute strength, (not that I have much of that.)
  • 06 Nov 2011 23:12
    Quote
    Reply # 743551 on 743016
    Anonymous member

    I don’t want to disagree with David and Ketil, but I ask you not to disregard my earlier post. It is easy to over plan and over design, particularly in an area where you have little experience. Wait until you have the boat sailing and see if you do need a winch, and also see if a small second hand one will do the job. Poppy has a 4 part halyard, not an ideal number but a compromise between mechanical advantage and friction. Using the gloves I simply hoist 5 panels, tidy the falls and then raise the last two panels. During the drop, with the gloves I let the halyard run lightly through my hand and can stop it at any time without a rope burn. I did consider using a winch once this year, but I couldn’t find the handle, so didn’t. With this, along with many other worries I suggest that you ‘Rush Slowly’.

    Cheers, Slieve.
  • 06 Nov 2011 18:49
    Quote
    Reply # 743465 on 743016
    Anonymous member
    I agree with Ketil that hard driving needs more winch power. I have a pair of ARCO 2-speed self-tailers, 14:1 and 30:1 power ratio. Normally, I only need the 14:1 ratio to raise the last part of the mainsail, but when hard driving downwind and shaking out a reef, I need 30:1. To control the 5-part mainsheet when gybing in a blow, I need the 14:1 ratio, but not the 30:1.
  • 06 Nov 2011 16:12
    Quote
    Reply # 743411 on 743016
    Anonymous member

    Hi,

    Edmond Dantes has a sail of 48 m2 and a 3:1 purchase and a Anderson 40 self tailing winch with electric drive. (going broke is just the forename!) For the sheeting I use an Anderson ST 28. Normally I can sheet in by hand, but when hard driven, I use the winch for adjustment. Edmond is very hard driven these days, as I love being out in a blow + 20 knots with one or two panels down. I find that it is the waves that is the problem when it blows, not the wind. Sailing in sheltered waters, short fetch for the sea, makes it an enjoyable exercise.
  • 06 Nov 2011 07:13
    Quote
    Reply # 743246 on 743016
    Anonymous member
    I have to differ from Slieve on this one. You have 469 sq. ft., Alan, and that needs some control on the way down as well as on the way up, which a winch drum will give you. My recommendation is for a 16:1 self tailing winch and a 3:1 halyard. The 3:1 halyard with a winch suffers less from frictional losses than a 4:1 or 5:1 halyard with no winch, and I would cost the whole package of rope, blocks and winch for each option before you decide. 
    The sheet is not so critical. If you have a 5:1 or 6:1 sheet, you will rarely feel the need for a sheet. 
  • 06 Nov 2011 00:41
    Quote
    Reply # 743121 on 743095
    Deleted user
    Slieve McGalliard wrote:

    What do you plan to use the winch for? Poppy has over 500 sq.ft hanging from the halyard and I haven't used the winch since I bought a pair of sailing gloves. I know Arne makes jokes about me being big, but I am the wrong side of seventy. I suggest you don't spend too much effort, or money on the problem until you see what you really need in practice.

    Cheers, Slieve


    Thanks, Slieve. That's the best answer I could hope for.
  • 05 Nov 2011 23:46
    Quote
    Reply # 743095 on 743016
    Anonymous member

    What do you plan to use the winch for? Poppy has over 500 sq.ft hanging from the halyard and I haven't used the winch since I bought a pair of sailing gloves. I know Arne makes jokes about me being big, but I am the wrong side of seventy. I suggest you don't spend too much effort, or money on the problem until you see what you really need in practice.

    Cheers, Slieve
  • 05 Nov 2011 20:36
    Quote
    Message # 743016
    Deleted user
    Need all the help I can get on this one. I've looked at so many now, I'm going winch blind.
    The halyard will be 1/2". Do I need one or two, one on each side of the cockpit? Single speed sufficient, or two-speed?

    And how do I "winch up" without going broke? Or is that just a given?

    TIA
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