HFJY34

  • 29 Nov 2024 16:26
    Reply # 13436029 on 7155071

    Hvalfisken

    It’s a rather long story of how I got to the name, but there’s lots of meaning there for me.

    The “en” at the end is how a lot of ships are named here in Denmark.  
    Its function is as “the” in English, or “de” in Dutch.

    For example; there were two elephants present at “ Slaget på Reden”, off Copenhagen in 1801. 
    Also known as The First Battle of Copenhagen. 
    Nelson’s Elephant and the Danish battleship Elefanten

    And yes Jan, That post of the H28. That was what got me started for real. 

    1 file
    Last modified: 30 Nov 2024 12:09 | Anonymous member
  • 29 Nov 2024 15:27
    Reply # 13436009 on 7155071

    From Chris Morejohn’s own design criteria for his H28 :

    “Great bunk = great sex = great sleeping. I believe that having a good bunk to sleep and live in is very important. It must have plenty of room with great ventilation to survive in the tropics. Having lots of headroom over it with a clear view of the stars at night means that you will want to be next to each other all the time but when designed properly then you can also have room to spread out so when one of you is going to stay up reading at night the other can roll over and get some space. All this means you will love to be aboard. Our Bunk on the HFM is the best place in the world to sleep.”

    H28 Junk rigged yawl.

    Reminds me of Reuel Parker’s Voyages of Fishers Hornpipe. Sex and drugs and rock n roll on the high seas, an antidote to all the seemingly celibate classic cruising books.

    Hvalfisk, what an interesting creature, great name for an interesting boat!


  • 28 Nov 2024 22:38
    Reply # 13435899 on 7155071

    Paul T., I am very curious to understand why your experience shows that up to 4° forward mast rake the sail settles better when running? What do you mean, "better"? Are you referring to light winds?

    On Ilvy we are reefing dead running with the sail squared out and under pressure, without any problems. Is that possible with forward rake, too?


    Arne, having the mast in the V-berth between Toni and me was a compromise. There was no feasible alternative, given the time and budget at hand. We got along, and it even felt a bit more cozy due to the ability to wedge oneself into the berth. But I wouldn't recommend it, if an alternative mast position is possible.

    One thing to consider when placing the mast in the V-berth: Before finalizing mast position, I built a mast dummy from cardboard for under deck placement. We then tested to lay in the berth with the mast dummy at the designated position. Luckily it was at belly position, so it was still possible to sleep in all positions and to hug the other one :) I think things would have been different if the mast would have been at head or shoulder position... 


    Cheers,

    Paul

  • 28 Nov 2024 17:55
    Reply # 13435863 on 13435767
    Arne wrote:

    Paul T.  -  OK, OK, I do understand that forward-raking masts work, although I struggle with seeing that they are better. The Chinese have been sailing their junks for centuries and they surely know (knew) how to fit forward-raking masts, since they did that on their foremasts. However, all the main driving sails appear to sit on plumb masts. Some mizzenmasts even have a little aft rake. I refuse to think that this is only a result of tradition and bull-headed ignorance.
    Sooo, live and let live. I’ll stick to plumb masts, except on the foresails on schooners, but wish you good luck.

    As for avoiding having a big pole right through one’s double bunk; yes, that is a good argument. Still, people are different.  Paul S and his Toni have been cruising for months this summer in their little Ilvy. In spite of having the mast right through their bunk, their smiles appear to be wider and brighter than ever. How come?

    I use some forward rake because experience has taught me that some forward rake helps to settle the sail when running and that, to my mind is a good thing. At angles up to 4° there are no disadvantages at all. At greater angles, things become more complicated and the trade offs depend on your design goals. I see zero point in aft rake in a junk rig.

    You keep on mentioning traditional Chinese junks but neither you nor I are designing traditional junk rigs, nor are we using traditional junk hulls and materials. We are working with materials and hull forms that have little relation to what the Chinese had. They had large crews and (mostly) poor materials and that drove a lot of their decisions. They were also known for a singular lack of curiosity about things, once they got what they wanted from the product.

    We in the west today have almost exactly the opposite environment. We have high quality materials and small crews and that should be driving our design process. For the Chinese it would have been no problem to have one or two crew on the foredeck to tame a misbehaving sail. Except if racing, most of us nowadays don't have crew to spare.

    The whole ethos of the modern junk as used by us in the west, is  ease of handling and keeping the crew off the foredeck and in the cockpit. For many of us, who are single handers, it's away of making solo sailing safe.

    When Blondie came up with his variant of the junk rig, he took the things that worked towards meeting his design goals from the Chinese, namely a safe easily handled rig for short and single handed sailing. He met his goals brilliantly and his work is the foundation upon which I (and you) work. It's nott however set in stone, I base all my work on the foundation created by Blondie but I'm also a designer and my job is to come up with solutions for problems, not to slavishly reenact a given model. 

    The rig I have designed for Frederik, solves his problems, David Tyler used a similar approach with the rig he designed for Annie Hill's Raven 26 Fantail. That lady also did not fancy sleeping with a mast between her legs...

    I can't really comment of the choices that Paul S and Toni have made as I don't know them nor would this be the place.

    Last modified: 29 Nov 2024 00:26 | Anonymous member
  • 28 Nov 2024 09:44
    Reply # 13435767 on 7155071
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Paul T.  -  OK, OK, I do understand that forward-raking masts work, although I struggle with seeing that they are better. The Chinese have been sailing their junks for centuries and they surely know (knew) how to fit forward-raking masts, since they did that on their foremasts. However, all the main driving sails appear to sit on plumb masts. Some mizzenmasts even have a little aft rake. I refuse to think that this is only a result of tradition and bull-headed ignorance.
    Sooo, live and let live. I’ll stick to plumb masts, except on the foresails on schooners, but wish you good luck.

    As for avoiding having a big pole right through one’s double bunk; yes, that is a good argument. Still, people are different.  Paul S and his Toni have been cruising for months this summer in their little Ilvy. In spite of having the mast right through their bunk, their smiles appear to be wider and brighter than ever. How come?

    Frederik, I am sure Hvalfisken (The Whale-fish) will be great  -  with any rig.

    Arne


    (photo in Arne's photos, no 10)

    Last modified: 28 Nov 2024 10:02 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 28 Nov 2024 06:15
    Reply # 13435748 on 7155071

    First after turning the hull I realized how nice it would be to get that mast out of the bunk, and started thinking. 
    Sail balance by itself could not do it and a SJR was not on my wishlist. 
    Then Paul came up with the raked mast design and that was it. We got the thumbs up from Chris Morejohn and took it from there.

    As for your concerns Arne. We’ll have to see how it all comes together.
    I guess I’ll have to take her up to Stavanger.   

    btw. The boat is a Hogfish design. It’s not the name she’ll have. 
    She’ll be “Hvalfisken”

    Last modified: 28 Nov 2024 10:08 | Anonymous member
  • 28 Nov 2024 00:57
    Reply # 13435716 on 13435674
    Anonymous wrote:

    A drawing exercise with hi-balance sail

    Frederik uses to publish photos from his building progress of Hogfish on FB, both on his own account and on the FB group.

    Recently he published an old sailplan from me, not the one he is actually going to use  -  a Paul Thompson design. Then I was dumb enough to stick out my head and air my view on plumb masts contra raked ones. I shouldn’t have done that, least of all on FB, where most of the contributors are mainly armchair enthusiasts.

    Still, Paul was generous and mailed me his sailplan in .dxf format to let me draw my preferred version onto it. I have now returned it to him with my extra details added.

    This sail differs quite a bit from the first one I sent to Frederik some years ago. Thanks to Paul Schnabel’s experience with a Johanna 60 type sail on his  Maxi 77, which he pushed further and further forward, I could now conclude that 27% mast balance works well.

    I therefore picked another Johanna 60 master sail from my stack, scaled it up and fitted it to a plumb mast on Hogfish, a little aft of the original one (stub still visible). The lovely thing with this is to see how close the CE now sits to the mast. This will ensure easier steering downwind than with my former low-balance sails.

    Now, this is just an exercise and a demo of the hi-balance sail. I admit that I am not so fond of forward-raking masts, but when Paul T. says that they have worked well on his boats, I have to surrender  -  although a bit reluctantly...


    I can only wish you both good luck!

    Arne

    (..full size diagram under Arne's sketches, Section 8...)

    The problem Arne, is that your mast is plumb in the middle of Frederik's nice big double bank and my design brief was to preserve it, as Frederik has not taken the celibacy vows yet, nor has he any plans to do so anytime in the future. A mast in the middle of a double bunk can seriously interfere with some (admittedly non sailing) activities.

    The 4° of forward rake that I've put in the mast is in fact the standard rake that I give all my designs where it is possible. I avoid vertical masts if it can be done.

    As for sail balance, as you well know, I have been using varying amounts since 2013 when I put 22% into LC's foresail. That sail shape has been one of my most successful ever and I've used it on a number of my designs. The sail for Frederik's Hogfish is based on it, as was the sail I made for Graham Cox's Blue Moon. Incidentally LC's foremast was raked forward 4°.

    I've put 28% sail balance in the sail for Frederick (measured along the batten, from the center line of the mast to the the luff). There is absolutely nothing new about using a decent amount of sail balance when it will do useful work. I feel you can safely use up to 33% sail balance. However somewhere around that point instability will start to occur... I suspect that the amount of camber will also figure in what that point is.

  • 27 Nov 2024 21:45
    Reply # 13435674 on 7155071
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    A drawing exercise with hi-balance sail

    Frederik uses to publish photos from his building progress of Hogfish on FB, both on his own account and on the FB group.

    Recently he published an old sailplan from me, not the one he is actually going to use  -  a Paul Thompson design. Then I was dumb enough to stick out my head and air my view on plumb masts contra raked ones. I shouldn’t have done that, least of all on FB, where most of the contributors are mainly armchair enthusiasts.

    Still, Paul was generous and mailed me his sailplan in .dxf format to let me draw my preferred version onto it. I have now returned it to him with my extra details added.

    This sail differs quite a bit from the first one I sent to Frederik some years ago. Thanks to Paul Schnabel’s experience with a Johanna 60 type sail on his  Maxi 77, which he pushed further and further forward, I could now conclude that 27% mast balance works well.

    I therefore picked another Johanna 60 master sail from my stack, scaled it up and fitted it to a plumb mast on Hogfish, a little aft of the original one (stub still visible). The lovely thing with this is to see how close the CE now sits to the mast. This will ensure easier steering downwind than with my former low-balance sails.

    Now, this is just an exercise and a demo of the hi-balance sail. I admit that I am not so fond of forward-raking masts, but when Paul T. says that they have worked well on his boats, I have to surrender  -  although a bit reluctantly...


    I can only wish you both good luck!

    Arne

    (..full size diagram under Arne's sketches, Section 8...)

    Last modified: 27 Nov 2024 21:56 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 25 Nov 2024 16:23
    Reply # 13434732 on 7155071

    Jeps Scott, you got it right. 
    I intend to keep the rode in the well, so no mud and water down below. I’ll Build a box for it

    See how that goes. 

    1 file
  • 25 Nov 2024 15:13
    Reply # 13434703 on 7155071

    Hello Frederik,

    Your boat looks great! No offense to any of the other skillfully built junk boats out there, but there is something I really like about Chris Morejohn's designs. They are, to my eye, an excellent modern Sharpie.

    Can you explain the purpose of the 90-degree-angle structure connecting the anchor well to the bow?

    edit: It think I understand. This is where you will mount the windlass.

    Scott.

    Last modified: 25 Nov 2024 15:49 | Anonymous member
       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
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