HFJY34

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  • 09 Dec 2024 10:36
    Reply # 13438964 on 7155071
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    To avoid contaminating this thread even more (my fault), I have added the next posting in this thread from last year Forward mast rake and friction.

    Arne

  • 02 Dec 2024 01:35
    Reply # 13436564 on 13436279
    Arne wrote:

    Just a silly question:
    Have you Paul T (or Annie) ever slept in a v-bunk with a mast at the centreline in between them? I have, several times, in my Malena and then in Johanna. Both had nice and dry spruce masts, which felt nice and warm to the touch. Ingeborg’s mast, on the other hand, is of aluminium. This has been dressed with two layers of bubble plastic and then a layer of pvc fabric. On top of that there is a knitted coat of wool, buttoned on almost like a cardigan. This makes the mast feel almost like a teddy bear  -  very soft, warm and comfy.
    None of these masts have ever robbed any sleep from me.

    (..the photo below was mainly taken to show Ingeborg’s unplugged air de-humidifier, but you can spot the mast behind it...)

    Cheers (..in Old Danish Bitter Dram...)
    Arne

    Thankfully I've avoided that experience! :-)
  • 02 Dec 2024 01:34
    Reply # 13436563 on 13436348
    Arne wrote:

    Paul T is of course right that I have very little hands-on experience with forward-raking masts (except for a few outings in the schooner Samson).
    I may well be on thin ice here. 
    However, I also lean on the findings of more experienced JR sailors, like Asmat Downey in this  recent post:

    The Junk Rig Association - Alberg 30 JR Conversion

    Note:
    I distinguish between 'no advantage', ' less than perfect', 'somewhat awkward' and 'total showstopper'. A forward-raking mast is not a showstopper at all, but I would only use it if interior, deck layout or CE issues call for it.

    Arne

    I suspect I've done rather more forward raking masts than Asmat Downey... as they say, one swallow does not a summer make.
  • 01 Dec 2024 08:29
    Reply # 13436349 on 13436279
    Anonymous wrote:

    Just a silly question:
    Have you Paul T (or Annie) ever slept in a v-bunk with a mast at the centreline in between them? I have, several times, in my Malena and then in Johanna. Both had nice and dry spruce masts, which felt nice and warm to the touch. Ingeborg’s mast, on the other hand, is of aluminium. This has been dressed with two layers of bubble plastic and then a layer of pvc fabric. On top of that there is a knitted coat of wool, buttoned on almost like a cardigan. This makes the mast feel almost like a teddy bear  -  very soft, warm and comfy.
    None of these masts have ever robbed any sleep from me.

    (..the photo below was mainly taken to show Ingeborg’s unplugged air de-humidifier, but you can spot the mast behind it...)

    Cheers (..in Old Danish Bitter Dram...)
    Arne


    (Photo section 7-11)

    Not that I can recall.  But I am a chronic insomniac and one of the good things about sleeping alone is that I can sprawl like a starfish, get up and look at the moon, sit up and open the hatch wide, and roll from side to side without having to consider that I might disturb someone else's sleep.  A mast in fhe middle of my bunk would be a other of the many things that inhibit my being able to sleep.

    It must also make it a bugger for finding sheets and a quilt!

  • 01 Dec 2024 08:13
    Reply # 13436348 on 7155071
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Paul T is of course right that I have very little hands-on experience with forward-raking masts (except for a few outings in the schooner Samson).
    I may well be on thin ice here. 
    However, I also lean on the findings of more experienced JR sailors, like Asmat Downey in this  recent post:

    The Junk Rig Association - Alberg 30 JR Conversion

    Note:
    I distinguish between 'no advantage', ' less than perfect', 'somewhat awkward' and 'total showstopper'. A forward-raking mast is not a showstopper at all, but I would only use it if interior, deck layout or CE issues call for it.

    Arne

    Last modified: 01 Dec 2024 10:26 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 01 Dec 2024 00:43
    Reply # 13436323 on 13435899
    Zpaul S wrote:

    Paul T., I am very curious to understand why your experience shows that up to 4° forward mast rake the sail settles better when running? What do you mean, "better"? Are you referring to light winds?

    On Ilvy we are reefing dead running with the sail squared out and under pressure, without any problems. Is that possible with forward rake, too?

    Yes, I said as much, rake is just a tool for moving the CE around. The sail otherwise works exactly as any other sail and yes, it comes down on a run as well. There's no extra friction  that is entirely a product of Arne's imagination. Arne has no experience with forward rake, he just does not like it. That fine as far as it goes, it does not however mean that there are any issues with the sail behavior....

    If you want your sail to come down easily, just don't usebfive part halyards, they really do add friction. 

  • 30 Nov 2024 22:41
    Reply # 13436298 on 7155071

    Thank you, Paul T., for clearing up about mast rake. As I read it, the only advantage is gravity letting the sail out in light winds; disadvantage: none. Correct? So, basically, it is just another tool to get the CE to the right position if mast placement is restricted.

    Frederik: wonderful, what a mighty name!

    Arne, I did similar on Ilvy: wrapped the Aluminium mast into a yoga mat, then sewed some canvas around it with a zipper. It was never cold or uncomfy to lay against the mast. However, I think the position of the mast in relation to one's body makes all the difference whether good sleep is possible (not talking about non-sailing related activities...). We had the mast at belly position, so it was possible to sleep sideways (if wanted) with knees drawn in and even spoon. In your foto it looks like the mast is that far forward that it would interfere with your knees when sleeping on the side. Any problems with that? I would imagine similar problems with sleeping on ones back if the mast is at shoulder height.

    Cheers, Paul

  • 30 Nov 2024 21:49
    Reply # 13436279 on 7155071
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Just a silly question:
    Have you Paul T (or Annie) ever slept in a v-bunk with a mast at the centreline in between them? I have, several times, in my Malena and then in Johanna. Both had nice and dry spruce masts, which felt nice and warm to the touch. Ingeborg’s mast, on the other hand, is of aluminium. This has been dressed with two layers of bubble plastic and then a layer of pvc fabric. On top of that there is a knitted coat of wool, buttoned on almost like a cardigan. This makes the mast feel almost like a teddy bear  -  very soft, warm and comfy.
    None of these masts have ever robbed any sleep from me.

    (..the photo below was mainly taken to show Ingeborg’s unplugged air de-humidifier, but you can spot the mast behind it...)

    Cheers (..in Old Danish Bitter Dram...)
    Arne


    (Photo section 7-11)

  • 29 Nov 2024 17:21
    Reply # 13436045 on 13436009
    Jan wrote:

    From Chris Morejohn’s own design criteria for his H28 :

    “Great bunk = great sex = great sleeping. I believe that having a good bunk to sleep and live in is very important. It must have plenty of room with great ventilation to survive in the tropics. Having lots of headroom over it with a clear view of the stars at night means that you will want to be next to each other all the time but when designed properly then you can also have room to spread out so when one of you is going to stay up reading at night the other can roll over and get some space. All this means you will love to be aboard. Our Bunk on the HFM is the best place in the world to sleep.”

    H28 Junk rigged yawl.

    Reminds me of Reuel Parker’s Voyages of Fishers Hornpipe. Sex and drugs and rock n roll on the high seas, an antidote to all the seemingly celibate classic cruising books.

    Hvalfisk, what an interesting creature, great name for an interesting boat!


    Totally agree with this. One should not need to become a monk or a nun to enjoy the pleasures of sailing. Even when single, a decent,  spacious bunk is a pleasure and if you sail with a cat, no bunk can be too big!
    Last modified: 29 Nov 2024 17:21 | Anonymous member
  • 29 Nov 2024 17:17
    Reply # 13436044 on 13435899
    Paul S:

    Paul T., I am very curious to understand why your experience shows that up to 4° forward mast rake the sail settles better when running? What do you mean, "better"? Are you referring to light winds?

    On Ilvy we are reefing dead running with the sail squared out and under pressure, without any problems. Is that possible with forward rake, too?

    When running in light winds, forward rake in the mast let's gravity help keep the sail out. Forward rake also can help to put the CE where it's needed when the options for the mast partners is limited for any reason. Rake is just another tool in the designers toolbox, to be used when needed.

    I've never had issues reefing any of my sails on any point of sail.... sometimes you need to wait for a bit of a roll to free things up but the sail always comes down. More or less sail balance or mast rake does not seem to influence things much. Although a decent amount of sail balance does seem to make the sail more docile when gybing and it does reduce the sheet loads.

    If you want the sail to come down readily, don't use a five part halyard, they are high friction devices! I only use three part halyards. If you need more power, use a winch. The Secondhand market is flooded with cheap non self tailing winches. Most of them are cheaper than what a decent set of blocks will cost you for a five part halyard.

    Lastly, forward rake really meses with the minds of pointy sailors.... that adds to the pleasure of junk ownership.

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