With balance sail area forward of the mast, the halyard would be better being led down inside the mast, otherwise there will be a chafing situation where the batten crosses it, but this issue is a minor one compared to the problem of doubling up the sheeting system in order to swap ends.

Still, if the primary object is to have  a battened balance lug sail on  a keel stepped mast, a shunter looks like the way to go. That said, there there is a possibility of using a freestanding Junk rig on a tacking multihull, although personally I find the proa configuration preferable for other reasons than facilitating a freestanding rig.

Speaking of Russel Brown, his choice of rig has decidedly much to do with stays and a shroud or the Bermudan/Marconi configuration in essence, although I did  happen to see a pic of the proa Cheers displayed inside the cabin of Jzerro ( this when invited to take a peek below decks on one occasion)... so it could be that he hasan appreciation of unstayed rigs. 

You are right, Oscar, it is not a problem.  I was a bit confused when I wrote that but as soon as I read your comment about the sail needing to swing 90 degrees either way on a 'one-way' boat, and looked at your sketch, it clicked. 

Balance is another issue of course.  Given the variable geometry of a proa, with the possibility of using boards in different positions (you could have tandem daggerboards in the ama), it might be possible to get away with a single mast, especially if you had about 20% of the sail forward of the mast.  Alternatively you could use two masts and utilize a schooner rig, which is well suited to long skinny hulls.

Having met Russell Brown on Jzerro some years ago, I have always been enchanted by proas.  I was thinking of building one but it isn't going to happen now, unfortunately.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Hi Jeremy - I look forward to seeing the rigs that you, David Thatcher and others develop for your minimalistic multihulls.  I am going to try harder to find a buyer for Arion this year and would love to end my days aboard a small cat.  I like the idea of retaining a junk mainsail, as I have got so used to the delight of a sail that does not flog when you spill the wind from it, that will feather quietly, and which you can reef effortlessly.  I think the wide staying base of a cat will allow a three-point staying system with plenty of breathing space for the junk yard, while allowing headsails to be flown as well. I really want that lightweight battenless drifter. If the battened junk sail is slamming around in the swell, snatching hard on its gear, you can lower it and just fly the drifter.  

Talking of Ernst Klaar, I met him in Darwin early in 1975.  His boat was up on the hard being repaired after Cyclone Tracy.  The boys, who grew up to be such wild spirits, were about 8 and 10, blonde-haired innocents!  Ernst told me he was going to sail across the Indian Ocean, and I remember looking at his portholes, which were little bits of ply that slid in grooves, like kitchen cupboard doors.  What I didn't realise is that traditional junks, with their good freeboard and buoyancy, combined with shallow draft, could not be compared to lead-mine western monohull yachts.  Jung Jung was a similar type, and I think the rig you evolved is ideal for ocean voyaging.  However, those days are over for me, hence my interest in minimalistic multihulls,  which also have different design parameters to heavily ballasted monohulls.  The use of light air canvas becomes much more rewarding in a boat capable of skimming across the water like a butterfly. 

Hi Graham, 

Before I get around to hands on development work on a Junk type shunting rig, the basic split sprit type one will have been tried and hopefully allowed some cruising time.....assuming plans work out - eg. my local sailmaker has agreed to make a start on the mains'l when he has the time, which should  provide enough power (along with the OB motor) to get out and around coastal waters here,  also to nearby islands.

Additional sails in the way of staysails and possibly asymmetric headsails scrounged from skiffs(maybe a 49er)should provide some more go.

Talking about a Junk main and 3point staying system on a tacking multi takes my mind back to the idea of a mast  closer to one hull, rather than midway(between hulls), with the other hull being utilised as a trimaran or Atlantic proa Ama on one tack, or a windward proa ama on the other and  having the Cabin structure extending out from each side of the hull that might be considered the vaca, hereby offering a similar accomodation layout to a trimaran, but with a less intrusive mast step, and  2 hulls rather than 3. 

This was the idea being turned over when I made an attempt to speak with Pete Hil(about how sails worked on individual hulls)l and my mindset on asymmetry has since than been channeled towards shunters, to the exclusion of tacking multis.However, any monohull that I might ever build or own  from now on will have to be tiny, although Junk rigged, and likely with a short forward raked mast in the bow.

On the difference between wooden Junks and "lead-mine keelers"...Ernst offered the following advice when speaking with him in Durban (after he had crossed the  Indian Ocean from Darwin and then sailed to Europe a few times, also having salvaged the treasure from Bassas de India Reef )... he said about boatbuilding " you are only building a boat for sailing on the sea,   its not like you are going to war in a bloody tank".

There is probably some similarity between a Wharram cat and a double ended Junk without a ballast keel, both structurally and in consideration of canvas carried.

Jung Jung did have a quick motion like a Wharram and in very light wind and lumpy water the mains'l really did slam around and snatch at the gear..This sure is reason to opt for rigging support, specially the mast is to be as tall as possible, and he able to carry some light unbattened cloth.

Anonymous wrote:

Hi Jeremy - I look forward to seeing the rigs that you, David Thatcher and others develop for your minimalistic multihulls.  I am going to try harder to find a buyer for Arion this year and would love to end my days aboard a small cat.  I like the idea of retaining a junk mainsail, as I have got so used to the delight of a sail that does not flog when you spill the wind from it, that will feather quietly, and which you can reef effortlessly.  I think the wide staying base of a cat will allow a three-point staying system with plenty of breathing space for the junk yard, while allowing headsails to be flown as well. I really want that lightweight battenless drifter. If the battened junk sail is slamming around in the swell, snatching hard on its gear, you can lower it and just fly the drifter.  

Talking of Ernst Klaar, I met him in Darwin early in 1975.  His boat was up on the hard being repaired after Cyclone Tracy.  The boys, who grew up to be such wild spirits, were about 8 and 10, blonde-haired innocents!  Ernst told me he was going to sail across the Indian Ocean, and I remember looking at his portholes, which were little bits of ply that slid in grooves, like kitchen cupboard doors.  What I didn't realise is that traditional junks, with their good freeboard and buoyancy, combined with shallow draft, could not be compared to lead-mine western monohull yachts.  Jung Jung was a similar type, and I think the rig you evolved is ideal for ocean voyaging.  However, those days are over for me, hence my interest in minimalistic multihulls,  which also have different design parameters to heavily ballasted monohulls.  The use of light air canvas becomes much more rewarding in a boat capable of skimming across the water like a butterfly. 

Hi Graham, 

Before I get around to hands on development work on a Junk type shunting rig, the basic split sprit type one will have been tried and hopefully allowed some cruising time.....assuming plans work out - eg. my local sailmaker has agreed to make a start on the mains'l when he has the time, which should  provide enough power (along with the OB motor) to get out and around coastal waters here,  also to nearby islands.

Additional sails in the way of staysails and possibly asymmetric headsails scrounged from skiffs(maybe a 49er)should provide some more go.

Talking about a Junk main and 3point staying system on a tacking multi takes my mind back to the idea of a mast  closer to one hull, rather than midway(between hulls), with the other hull being utilised as a trimaran or Atlantic proa Ama on one tack, or a windward proa ama on the other and  having the Cabin structure extending out from each side of the hull that might be considered the vaca, hereby offering a similar accomodation layout to a trimaran, but with a less intrusive mast step, and  2 hulls rather than 3. 

This was the idea being turned over when I made an attempt to speak with Pete Hil(about how sails worked on individual hulls)l and my mindset on asymmetry has since than been channeled towards shunters, to the exclusion of tacking multis.However, any monohull that I might ever build or own  from now on will have to be tiny, although Junk rigged, and likely with a short forward raked mast in the bow.

On the difference between wooden Junks and "lead-mine keelers"...Ernst offered the following advice when speaking with him in Durban (after he had crossed the  Indian Ocean from Darwin and then sailed to Europe a few times, also having salvaged the treasure from Bassas de India Reef )... he said about boatbuilding " you are only building a boat for sailing on the sea,   its not like you are going to war in a bloody tank".

There is probably some similarity between a Wharram cat and a double ended Junk without a ballast keel, both structurally and in consideration of canvas carried.

Jung Jung did have a quick motion like a Wharram and in very light wind and lumpy water the mains'l really did slam around and snatch at the gear..This sure is reason to opt for rigging support, specially the mast is to be as tall as possible, and he able to carry some light unbattened cloth.

Anonymous wrote:

Jeremy Walker wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I thought I would put any updates about my little catamaran build here, seen as how my posts are so few and far apart there is no point in a separate thread, and it is after all a minimalist cruising multihull.

Progress has been a bit slower than I would like, but that is to be expected with all the other things we have going on in life. There has also been a hiatus of several weeks whist I have been organising the sale of Footprints which has included making a new sail cover for her. Anyway this afternoon I finally managed to get in several hours of work and did the initial fairing of the plywood on the hulls, cleaning up all the rough edges and tidying up the chines. So, I now have two very floatable objects. If ever we have a flood up here on the top of our hill I have the makings of a double canoe so as to ensure our survival!

The next step now is filling of all the screw holes, and other areas of filler needed, a good sanding, and then into fiberglass. Pictures below of what are looking like two slender and potentially very fast hulls. 

Very pretty, David.  I can see why you might not want to put a mast in each bow, though.  It will be most interesting to see what rig you eventually use.

Since last posting on this thread, when I asserted that a stayed rig would be a lighter option, a bit of thought has been given to the 'junk reefing wingsail' mentioned earlier on.

Shrouds and a forestay, along with back staying via the yard, battens and Chinese sheet system have helped me with weight reduction aloft(on Jung Jung), so a follow-up on this(semi standing rigging) has been looked at in the way of creating spars and frame from bamboo and epoxy/carbon fibre, with dyneema lines in tension.

First and before getting down to that, I need to finish and go through experimental trials

of the minimalistic double luff sail on my cruising Pahi/proa.

Minimalistic has got to apply to a sail that has historically (in the case eastern Pacific shunting Oceanic Pahi) been described as  being "a big square mat that is supported by long bamboo poles and ropes of Hibiscus bark, and what is of particular to a sailor is that the tack does not differ from that in our boats in Europe, and the sheet is fixed one side or the other with a small wooden pin.

This quadrilateral type sail is not much different to the foresail  that I used on my junk Jung Jung - except for the double luff arrangement.

Cost and labour required for this rig is on the minimalistic side, but if bamboo can be used for a wingsail frame, I might just be worthwhile to continue with the idea of a Targa frame support for a telescopically assembled mast on a double canoe. 

Ah Jung Jung - I still have a soft spot for that boat and her rig.  I was always hoping to come across the cold-moulded Jung Jung 11 one day.  I liked Jung Jung's ability to set that light-weather quadrilateral foresail, and also to run with her little storm jib in heavy weather.  The deeply reefed foresail of a junk schooner will serve as a storm jib, but that lovely light weather sail would be hard to replicate.  Cambered junk sails and a generous sail plan are an effective way of getting light-weather performance, but nothing can compare to a battenless lightweight drifter.  Jung Jung remains a vision of poetic beauty and superb function in my mind. 

Speaking of a battenless lightweight drifter... I am reminded that Ernst Klaar(owner/master of the Junk Maria Jose) told me that his "secret weapon" was a drifter. and the taller mast I fitted when in England was intended to take such a sail.

Both the Maria Jose and Jung Jung had short rigs and shoal draught, along with payload/internal ballast being largely contributive to righting moment, so, in comparison, the current crop of Junk rigged keelers  can benefit from a more generous mast and battened foresail, with their ability to cope with increased top hamper.

As things like shoal draught still apply for me now, a  short rig remains a requirement, but for reason of reduced cost, rather than for the mast to remain standing after a knockdown. Otherwise, there area number of factors which I think can be carried over to a multihull configuration.