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Windvane selfsteering gear questions

  • 01 Sep 2011 07:30
    Quote
    Reply # 689520 on 673518
    Anonymous member
    A member of my cruising club wrote to Trev recently about how he had got his Tiller Pilot to work on an Aries.  I'll drop him a line and post what he has to say.
  • 31 Aug 2011 12:32
    Quote
    Reply # 688899 on 683114
    Anonymous member
    Slieve McGalliard wrote:
    Lesley Verbrugge wrote:
    TONY AND SALLY SUMMERS wrote:We have attatched a raymarine ST1000 tillerpilot to our Hasler vane gear-
    Would you have time to post some pictures?  We have inherited a raymarine tillerpilot that was connected somehow to our Aries, and I would be interested to see how you've made the connection!
    Thanks
    Lesley

    Hi Lesley

    Take a look at http://windpilot.com/ and download the Free Download of 'Self-Steering Under Sail'. On page 105 there are 2 photos of autopilots attached to the counter weight of the wind vanes being used to drive the servo pendulum gears, and an explanation of what's going on. You might find that helpful. I've read somewhere that it is not considered to be a good idea to run for very long periods under this rig as it is supposed to cause a lot of wear in the steering gear, but that does not make much sense as it couldn't really be much different to simply using a vane gear.

    Cheers, Slieve

    Thanks for the link Slieve, page 43 doesn't have much that is nice to say about my windvane only system. Sadly I can't give any feedback on yet as it is still untested. Arne Built to a similar design back when he was in his transitional BM/JR phase and had some success with it.
  • 30 Aug 2011 12:37
    Quote
    Reply # 688040 on 673518
    Anonymous member
    Attaching a tiller pilot to the counterweight of my Aries self steering gear does cause a lot of wear and tear under power, as the propeller wash tends to make the servo paddle vibrate, causing the whole apparatus to shudder and rattle. The solution: offset the tiller line chain a few links to one side so that the servo paddle is no longer centred, but deflected to the side, out of the prop wash.
    Last modified: 30 Aug 2011 12:37 | Anonymous member
  • 23 Aug 2011 20:29
    Quote
    Reply # 683114 on 681329
    Anonymous member
    Lesley Verbrugge wrote:
    TONY AND SALLY SUMMERS wrote:We have attatched a raymarine ST1000 tillerpilot to our Hasler vane gear-
    Would you have time to post some pictures?  We have inherited a raymarine tillerpilot that was connected somehow to our Aries, and I would be interested to see how you've made the connection!
    Thanks
    Lesley

    Hi Lesley

    Take a look at http://windpilot.com/ and download the Free Download of 'Self-Steering Under Sail'. On page 105 there are 2 photos of autopilots attached to the counter weight of the wind vanes being used to drive the servo pendulum gears, and an explanation of what's going on. You might find that helpful. I've read somewhere that it is not considered to be a good idea to run for very long periods under this rig as it is supposed to cause a lot of wear in the steering gear, but that does not make much sense as it couldn't really be much different to simply using a vane gear.

    Cheers, Slieve

    Last modified: 23 Aug 2011 20:35 | Anonymous member
  • 21 Aug 2011 23:11
    Quote
    Reply # 681582 on 673518
    Anonymous member
    Lesley,
    Since the Aries has bevel gears to connect the vane to the servo, and this is where the negative feedback is put in, I think you'll have to connect to the vertical push/pull component. Clamp a 2 or 3mm Dyneema line to the centre of this, and lead it through a block hanging from the vane turret, and through a block near the bevel gears. Then it's a question of leading the lines forward to a place where they can be similarly attached to the push/pull rod of the tiller pilot. 
    Any gear like the Hasler that has a little tiller at the top of the servo is a bit easier - there is a natural connection point there, at the end of the tiller, with the lines lead out through blocks on the frame and then forward.
    I did all this years ago when I had a trim tab, and wasn't very happy with the result, but that was probably the trim tab's fault. I really must get around to trying it on the servos.
  • 21 Aug 2011 16:22
    Quote
    Reply # 681368 on 673518
    Deleted user

    Yes I can post some pix of our tillerpilot to windvane setup. howevwer the Aries is much easier to connect ,being a horizontal axis. Just rig the tiller pilot up with whatever brackets you need  so that the ram operates the lever normally controlled by the vane. it will need the normal tillerpilot pin attatching to the vane bracket. the pilot will push/pull this and so operate the servo paddle. The Hasler gear is a vertical axis ,so I have made an auxilliary tiller to which the pilot is attatched. this tiller is attatched by lines and jam cleats to the moving bit of the Haslers gear---inthe same way David described attatching his servo lines to his steering tiller.Does that make sense?? will post some photos  TONY

     

     
  • 21 Aug 2011 14:32
    Quote
    Reply # 681329 on 680619
    Deleted user
    TONY AND SALLY SUMMERS wrote:We have attatched a raymarine ST1000 tillerpilot to our Hasler vane gear-
    Would you have time to post some pictures?  We have inherited a raymarine tillerpilot that was connected somehow to our Aries, and I would be interested to see how you've made the connection!
    Thanks
    Lesley
  • 20 Aug 2011 11:11
    Quote
    Reply # 680619 on 673518
    Deleted user
    We have attatched a raymarine ST1000 tillerpilot to our Hasler vane gear--- great for motorsailing and will handle Ron Glas under sail. using a remote handheld control its possible to sit in the bows of the boat and dodge pot buoys and tankers! because the tiller pilot is only operating the vane gear it uses a minute amount of power and consequently little strain or wear on the drive mechanism. We do revert to pure windvane as soon as the wind is sufficient/steady enough as removing one component from the system makes a bit more responsive and reduces yaw. TONY and SALLY
  • 20 Aug 2011 09:09
    Quote
    Reply # 680594 on 680494
    Anonymous member
    Gary King wrote:For what its worth I will start off with Bill Belcher's simple horizontal vane connected to the tiller (as Bob Groves uses). I may use a tiller pilot as back up, if I can get mine fixed..

    I'm wondering if anyone has heard of tiller pilots lasting more than 18 months??
    Is there such a beast?

    Mine is a Simrad and I've seen equally bad reports about Raymarine. Locally the word about them is, they work for a year and then thrown over board with great frustration.
    I had a Raytheon/Raymarine 4000 tillerpilot from 2000 until 2008, when the drive unit died, and they declined to sell me just the drive unit on it's own. Then I got the 4000 GP model, which is going strong to date. And that's because I have only used each model when motoring in calm weather - even the strongest model is useless for sailing, though they rate it for 7.5 tonnes displacement. I don't think autopilot designers and builders live in the real world. A good vane gear is a much better investment.
  • 20 Aug 2011 09:00
    Quote
    Reply # 680592 on 677357
    Anonymous member
    Robert Groves wrote:
    The vane itself is a piece of 1/4 inch ply with a stiffened leading edge. I would like to try a fabric covered vane over a wire frame for lightness.
    My vane is of 5/8" GRP tube with a cover of 3 1/2 oz Dacron cloth, and is an improvement over a plywood vane. It will stand up to any weather, but I feel it is still heavier than it needs to be. A slow-acting vane that can't keep up with the boat's gyrations is another cause of bad steering. I saw some 900 x 7 x 5mm carbon fibre tube in Hobart's model shop that is very light, very stiff and very strong. Covered with spinnaker nylon or model aircraft covering fabric, the vane's weight would be very low. Decreasing the weight of the vane decreases not only the rotary moment of inertia, but also the amount of balance weight needed, which has an enormously beneficial effect on the bearing friction.
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