Just before we rig......

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  • 07 Oct 2018 18:19
    Reply # 6710898 on 6667181
    Deleted user

    I moved the camber forward as well, don't recall how much.

    I had planned on using double sheets but the weather was good so I skipped it the first time, worked well enough with a single sheet that I never bothered rigging a second set of sheetlets.

    I've never really done any sewing, one of several reasons I decided to go with an aero-junk next, I can do most of it with duct tape :)

    I remember your rocket stove from the video when you were building Crystal Clear, looked like it worked pretty good. my nephew bought  a house with oil heat, first month he used it it cost him more than twice his mortgage payment, didn't take him long to find a wood stove.

    The daggerboard was supposed to be on the lee side of the ama but I didn't think daryl and daryl could handle the torque so I put it on the bench.

    The daggerboard needs to move to balance the rig when I shunt, I figured it would be a lot easier than moving the rig, seems to work very well, I can steer the boat with it for the most part, and since I have no standing rigging I just put the sail on the weather side when reaching to balance the boat.

    The ad scull looks interesting, I was thinking about a yuloh but they look pretty heavy, the AD might do the trick.


  • 02 Oct 2018 19:49
    Reply # 6703536 on 6667181

    Hi Bill, thanks for that......

    Yea, Mike's sail does have horizontal battens, mine has them rising at an angle of about 15 degrees, batten stagger is positive once reefed, also i plan on having double sheets on both sides of the sail about 10 cm ahead of the leech. I feel that that part of the rig wont give any issues....

    Thanks for the tip on not stretching the polytarp when screwing on the battens. It's obvious but it will happen easily if one's not careful. I got a few tailor friends, that will help me stitch it up. Their idea was to build a fully cambered sail out of plastic, I don't like how Mike put max camber in the middle of the chord, since his darts are identical on luff and leech. I want to move the camber forward to 35%, so to make sure we get it right, we build the real thing in plastic, we plan on stitching the plastic with a sewing machine, then rig it, look at it, mess with it..... Finally make it.... For my first JR I'm willing to loose a bit of time, hope it comes out almost good......

    Wood heat is the way to go, I build my own rocket stoves and they rock! Diesel too gives off a hot and dry heat, but unless you live in Dubai.... Wood is the way to go.

    A new ama will blow you away..... If shunting will be what you do most, then why not put the daggerboard through the ama, That's the best place for it on a Pacific proa. My proas steer well rudderless till a broad reach (with the Crab Claw, but with a JR we have yet to see....) so I like the AD-Scull as a steering oar and propulsion. It takes the CLR way aft too, good stuff.

    Sailing Anarchy??? I left that place! The name fits it perfectly...................


  • 01 Oct 2018 18:29
    Reply # 6701113 on 6667181
    Deleted user

    Hi Mark, long time no see, hope the cruise is going well

    for dinghies that are dry sailed exterior house paint or better yet porch and deck paint makes way more sense than marine paint because it's formulated for the sort of abuse that a dry sailed dinghy has to endure, seasons of blistering sun with a few hours here and there of being wet, and foot traffic.

    I've read that latex is nice when your wood is damp because it's fairly porous so it'll let the moisture out and then dry once the wood is dry. 

    I've read on Interlux's site that when using brightsides topside paint, "Below the waterline" only applies to boats that will be left in the water for a certain period of time, 2 weeks or more if I recall.

    Acrylics and latex paints have come a long way due to environmental concerns over VOCs but I think for boats oil based paints still have the edge, a bit harder, denser, and much less expensive as well, for an alkyd polyurethane one part here it costs about $70/gal, for a water based polyurethane I'm looking at $180/gal and I'd have to put something with uv protection over it, the polyurethane fortified alkyd porch paint I've been using is $25/gal.

    The environmental laws here are pretty crazy, mostly due to BC being david suzuki's home stomping grounds, also, about 2/3's of Canada's Flower Children live within 100 miles of where I'm sitting.

    Lol, I posted over on Sailing Anarchy when I was looking at a woodstove and someone posted that he wouldn't waste the space and weight it'd take to carry wood and would just use a propane or diesel heater, I got a chuckle out of it, when I back up to a wood heater it feels just like sunshine, haven't run across anything that can compete/compare with wood heat, and I've yet to find propane or diesel laying around on a beach, well, unless you count oil slicks.

    I tend to forget that the rest of the world doesn't share Canadians acceptance of Cannabis, recreational weed will be legal here on the 17th, so I edited my post so as not to offend those from more conservative cultures.

    The sail in the tutorial I posted doesn't have any rise at all which can be a problem because if the battens don't slope upward from luff to leach (Rise) the battens want to shift forward as they drop into the lazyjacks, "Stagger" is the term I think, I noticed in one of your videos your battens were were moving forward which is why I mentioned it, it's worse when the sail is full of wind, I think your latest version is ok though.

    Also, be careful not to stretch your polytarp too tight from luff to leach when you sandwitch it between the batten halves or you'll mess up the camber.

    I'd go with less camber, the 6% you mentioned seems a good place to start and if you need more you can always put in a dart or two later, just fold the dart and stitch the bolt-rope together and slap on a couple pieces of duct tape over it :)

    You're probably pretty close on the batten sizes, with the system in the tutorial if a batten is too light it's a simple matter just to screw/glue another strip of wood on to stiffen things up, much harder to make them lighter if need be.

    I've got Larry Daryl and Daryl rigged to shunt or tack, I mostly shunt as Larry is designed for sculling and has no rocker and sort of a skeg at either end so to tack I have to paddle through the wind although gybing is doable.

    The sliding daggerboard works really well in spite of needing some more refinements on the design. The second picture shows the way it is now, when shunting it flops over about a metre so it's more or less balanced on the new shunt, it has to be tied in place as is because it's backwards, once I get the new ama done it'll slide on top of the ama with the board on the lee side instead of under the bench with the board to weather so the lift it develops will hold it in place when shunting, and it'll automatically flop over to balance the boat on the new shunt.

    Daryl and Daryl don't have enough flotation between them and are practically awash most of the time which creates a pile of drag that has to be balanced by sliding the daggerboard when tacking and makes weatherhelm pretty brutal when running on either shunt, so the new rig will have to wait till I get the new ama done, but I'm still having enough fun that I'm spending more time sailing than building.

    Speaking of which :)


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  • 01 Oct 2018 17:57
    Reply # 6701027 on 6667181

    All my boats are painted with "house paint" which is outdoor acrylic. The brand I use is Sherwin Williams, where I get it they mix it to any colour I want by the RAL catalogue. I used it under the waterline on my first Proa and it blistered to nothing in no time. Now I use it only above the waterline, good stuff.

  • 01 Oct 2018 13:47
    Reply # 6700630 on 6667181

    Back to the subject of painting.  Whilst they may not be on a boat, for my old  / damp house windows I last used water based paints (Acrylic?), much more success than oil based paints.  For a good thickness Thomson's Roof Seal is very good, it is a paint-on flat roofing material.  A bit thick and soft, perhaps good for hidden spaces.  Sandtex Smooth (masonry) paint also works well and gives a better finish.  For a cheap and cheerful project worth considering.  I hear than in USA they use 'Housepaint', I assume the same, on such projects, even the under-side of house boats!   Ideal for or a dinghy that is going to get bashed and at risk of being stolen?

  • 01 Oct 2018 05:23
    Reply # 6700197 on 6667181

    Yea Bill, I burned out a few brain cells my self while I was over...…. It's a never ending party over there, having the warmest van in LOT 4 (I shoved a wood burner in it with a chimney through the roof) meant every evening van was full with frozen neighbours, that thought propane heaters work..... You can imagine the rest...………. 

    I actually liked your comment the first time I read it.... Just had to run so late reply....

    Weird laws in B.C.... An eyeopener...…. Wow!

    I know about Mike Mulcahy's Junk rig and I too am following his instructions, I just need something fast and easy to make sure the whole concept is a good idea, if it proves to be a step in the right direction, I will probably make a brand new sail with proper barrel shaped panels.

    Thanks for your batten sizes, I'm thinking to go with 20x32.... I will play around with some spruce till I like the stiffness....

    What do you mean by the rig getting hung up on the mast when shunting?

    I will have double sheets leading to both sides of the sail just before the leech, if there's something I'm missing, this is the time to hear about it.

    You wrote that you shunt, What boat is it???? What sail exactly do you shunt, and how?

    Thanks for helping!

    All d best man.


  • 29 Sep 2018 21:03
    Reply # 6698547 on 6667181
    Deleted user

    Many fond memories of snowboarding whistler and blackdome, mostly fairly fuzzy though, too much er.. fun :)  a phrase that didn't enter my vocabulary till my mid forties :)

    I thought about ordering through ebay or amazon but any two part paint or epoxy is considered dangerous goods here so have to be shipped by specialty licensed courier at ridiculous rates.

    I used this tutorial to design my sail, I think it's pretty good for the most part, I added a half panel height of rise so the battens would stack neatly, otherwise when the sail is reefed the battens of the reefed panels move forward and the sheets get caught up in the sail bundle, I suppose your rig would get hung up on the mast when shunting, Blondie Hasler explains it in the PJR.

    7/8" X 5/8" X 8'(21mm X 15mm X 2.4m) is the total size of my battens, I ripped them in half. they could be a tad bigger, the top 3 anyways, they're fine till the wind is blowing hard enough that I need to reef, then they develop a bit of s-bend. It'd be easy enough just to add an extra strip of wood on one side or the other but I've never felt the need.

    I actually used darts to get camber and then joined the edges of the darts between the baton halves with staples and two sided carpet tape on both sides of the batons and then put them together with 5/8" screws.

    I wouldn't do it that way again, I think the batons need to be able to move a bit on the sail for everything to work properly, the port side of my sail is very different from the starboard side. if I were using split battens again I'd tie them together loosely through grommets in the sailcloth and seize them tight at the ends.

    Interestingly enough I have no problem at all with the sheetlets getting hung up while shunting. I use a single line from an akka through a block at the very end of the boat to the sheetlets and then from there to a block at the other end of the boat and back to the other akka I think because there's no tension on the line in the middle of the shunt when I loose one sheet and pull the other one in.


    Last modified: 01 Oct 2018 03:43 | Deleted user
  • 29 Sep 2018 06:10
    Reply # 6697917 on 6667181

    I found the 2 packs to be the best, here in non green BG it's all on the shelf.....

    Couldn't you cheat and order it on ebay or something of the sort.

    When there's a will there's a way.....

    BC is cool! framed houses there 20 years ago in Tofino, surfing before and after work... winters boarding in Whistler, good memories......

    By the way you wrote your battens were 7/8" X 5/8" X 8'(21mm X 15mm X 2.4m) iare those the dimensions of the 2 halves? You screwed them together on both sides of the sail? or are those the dimensions of half the batten, meaning the actual size is double that???

    I'm just about to start ripping mine, they are a bit longer, 2.7 meters, still no big deal, but it does make me wonder what size worked for you and how thick are the sides that the screws bite into...... 

    Last modified: 29 Sep 2018 18:06 | Anonymous member
  • 28 Sep 2018 15:52
    Reply # 6697087 on 6667181
    Deleted user

    the elasta deck looks like it'd be really good stuff, pretty heavy though if applied to manufacturers specs, there's even a distributor not all that far away.

    I think for a boat that'll be dry sailed abrasion resistance is much more important that water proofing, my boats get all their scratches at the launch when going into or out of the water.

    I honestly doubt that I'll be able to buy two pack paints here in "Supernatural British Columbia" I had enough trouble finding someone who'll sell me one part polyurethanes.


  • 27 Sep 2018 06:14
    Reply # 6694784 on 6667181

    Thanks David, interesting stuff, I will look into that stuff. It's passed the time test on your boats....

    As for 2 pack Acrylics, I have had great success even under the water line. I prime with a 2 pack epoxy primer for steel and top coat with the 2 pack Acrylic, never had any cracking, the paint seems to be just fine. 

    I will add that under the water line the hull is glassed, nothing moved, above the water line I painted my hatches that were bare poplar ply, primed with the 2 pack epoxy, 4 mm ply they are very flexible.... Again no cracking at all.

    I believe the problem would be painting solid wood that is not glassed and constantly wet, water will get in eventually, the wood will swell and a non flexible paint will crack.

    Last modified: 27 Sep 2018 21:05 | Anonymous member
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