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Flat Sails are Still Okay

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  • 27 Jun 2013 17:41
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    Reply # 1328512 on 594527
    Deleted user
    Hi all

    Sorry to drop that one in and then disappear!

    Thanks for all your responses. I'll re-read all your comments and then think about it a bit.

    Probably just learning how to sail better should be first on the list! I am interested in the non-destructive tuck method though. Seems like it might be a fun project just to see the benefits (or not..)

    Best

    Sam


  • 22 Jun 2013 21:33
    Quote
    Reply # 1324766 on 1324543
    Anonymous member
    Graham Cox wrote:No umbrage taken Paul.  We are all friends here with a lively interest in junk rig.  I was just having a light-hearted poke at you, since you seemed to be doing the same to some of us.  No harm in having a vigorous debate as long as it remains civilized!  I am always interested in your opinions.  I am looking forward to crossing tacks one of these days and having a closer look at your ship.

    Indeed, capitano de Arion, I'm likewise just having a light-hearted poke and a little fun as you have realised. I'll have to write a novel someday and these forum will provide a wonderful cast :-)

    And I too look forward to the day that we will cross tacks, I'm sure it will be most enjoyable.
    Last modified: 22 Jun 2013 21:34 | Anonymous member
  • 22 Jun 2013 15:50
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    Reply # 1324639 on 594527
    Anonymous member

    Hmmm..

    I must be missing something here. I just hoist my sail, (easy with an electric which) and sail. No problem.
  • 22 Jun 2013 12:36
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    Reply # 1324548 on 594527
    Deleted user
    Stay kewel, guys. I'm taking a few days off this moderating lark. Lesley will be covering, so watch out :-)
  • 22 Jun 2013 12:16
    Quote
    Reply # 1324543 on 594527
    Anonymous member
    No umbrage taken Paul.  We are all friends here with a lively interest in junk rig.  I was just having a light-hearted poke at you, since you seemed to be doing the same to some of us.  No harm in having a vigorous debate as long as it remains civilized!  I am always interested in your opinions.  I am looking forward to crossing tacks one of these days and having a closer look at your ship.
  • 22 Jun 2013 08:09
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    Reply # 1324459 on 594527
    Anonymous member
    Paul,

    Sam asked, "Is it even worth...?" and rather than assume they had already decided, I answered, 

    "My message to Sam & Naomi remains, "No. Not worth it, I think. Other small and cheap measures will likely reward you more." ... that, along with reasons and alternatives, all in line with the title of the discussion.

    I don't get your objection at all. I still see no problem except yours.

    I'd like to know what Sam & Naomi are thinking.

    Cheers,
    Kurt

  • 22 Jun 2013 06:08
    Quote
    Reply # 1324432 on 1324286
    Anonymous member
    Graham Cox wrote:Paul, I did answer the question and gave options to add a shelf foot or use hinged battens, as well as discussing the merits of the case.  And, frankly, if we are ranting, so are you. (I note your comments to Arne on mast rake.)  Also, Sam chose to post in this forum which indicates an interest in those arguments.  Any anyway, besides answering Sam, this is the appropriate forum for these discussions.
    Ola capitano de Arion, this homber craves your forgiveness. Twas a criminal oversight that I forgot that you had indeed ventured some remarks that were addressing Sam's question. Hopefully you will recover from your umbrage. :-)
  • 22 Jun 2013 04:05
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    Reply # 1324396 on 1321679
    Deleted user
    Sam Rossiter wrote:We have a flat sail in good condition and a limited budget.

    Is it even worth considering trying to add camber to this existing sail? Or would it be less trouble to start from scratch?
    Hey Sam, we finished a 30sqm sail couple months ago. It was fair chunk of work. Un picking your sail panels and adding lenses would be easier. At least you're not going through the lofting process of making whole new panels.

    We used a variation of Arne's method B to join the panels, I think it was a Dave Tyler idea, the battens end up closer to the sail. Looks great but I can't find the PDF with the info :(

    Edit: Technical illustration here.
    Last modified: 22 Jun 2013 04:25 | Deleted user
  • 21 Jun 2013 23:46
    Quote
    Reply # 1324286 on 594527
    Anonymous member
    Paul, I did answer the question and gave options to add a shelf foot or use hinged battens, as well as discussing the merits of the case.  And, frankly, if we are ranting, so are you. (I note your comments to Arne on mast rake.)  Also, Sam chose to post in this forum which indicates an interest in those arguments.  Any anyway, besides answering Sam, this is the appropriate forum for these discussions.

    Gary King: Your comment on style of sailing makes a good point.  Sailing without an engine or with a small outboard and limited fuel means that you will certainly benefit more than most from sails that perform well to windward in light airs.  Arion's cambered sail is 10% bigger than the bermudian main and working jib it replaced and the boat sails to windward in light air as if I had a large genoa set.  That also makes it a good choice for folk like Annie who loathe starting their engines.  Fantail holds her own against similar boats with bermudian rig, which is impressive.

    There is no black and white, I am right and you are wrong, answer here (as so often), just different strokes for different folks.
  • 21 Jun 2013 21:10
    Quote
    Reply # 1324170 on 1324067
    Anonymous member
    Kurt Jon Ulmer wrote:
    Paul Thompson wrote:
    Sam Rossiter wrote:We have a flat sail in good condition and a limited budget.

    Is it even worth considering trying to add camber to this existing sail? Or would it be less trouble to start from scratch?

    Guy's can I bring to your attention what Sam's original question was (it's quoted above)? He was not asking for opinions re the flat versus cambered debate (and he should really have started a new thread). He wanted to know if it was worth modifying an existing flat sail so as to create a cambered sail. He did not ask what our opinions where on the subject of flat versus cambered.

    Going off on a rant about whatever type of sail that you may favour is simply not answering the question.

    Nuff said :-)

     
    Paul,
    Surely opinions backed up by experience of flat and cambered sails, can help a person decide whether to make a flat sail into a cambered one. This thread contains heaps of useful discussion on the issue Sam showed interest in, including your detailed posts on the topic. I've read no rants. The 'versus' is all tinged with humour. I see no problem.
    Kurt

    Kurt, the thing is apart from Arne and myself, nobody answered the question. Opinions on the flat versus cambered debate are all over this thread and elsewhere in these forums, so I'm sure that Sam was well aware of the issues. I know that if I had been asking Sam's question, I would not have found the posts all that helpful. Sam was asking a sailmaking question not a sail type question.

    You are of cause free to state your opinions but how about answering the question first?
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