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Alloy Batten end questions

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  • 26 Mar 2011 21:12
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    Reply # 554964 on 554892
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    TONY AND SALLY SUMMERS wrote: We frequently have "snarl ups" on the foresheet on Ron Glas, usually the lower sheet spans get caught under the boom on a gentle tack---- rarely bother to  go fwd as it sorts itself out on the next tack or more usually the next slat on the next swell!As for batten ends poking through---  have not had a problem , Ron Glas is set up as per PJR [Obviously!] seems to be fine. Tony &Sally


    Yes,

    my problem with those batten pockets was a result of poor construction, not poor design principles, I think.

    Arne
  • 26 Mar 2011 18:18
    Quote
    Reply # 554892 on 549348
    Deleted user
    We frequently have "snarl ups" on the foresheet on Ron Glas, usually the lower sheet spans get caught under the boom on a gentle tack---- rarely bother to  go fwd as it sorts itself out on the next tack or more usually the next slat on the next swell!As for batten ends poking through---  have not had a problem , Ron Glas is set up as per PJR [Obviously!] seems to be fine. Tony &Sally
  • 26 Mar 2011 12:47
    Quote
    Reply # 554762 on 549348
    Deleted user
    Our sheets sometimes get jumbled up on the end of the battens or boom but we can live with it. It is a little untidy but easily remedied and causes no problems or damage to the sails. With the closeness of the sheets of the foresail to the boom of the reefed mainsail we occasionally have the sheets snag the boom if they get slack in a slow tack. One can walk forward and release them or keep them taught during the tack which aids in bringing the sail over.

    I've considered trying the hose extensions on the battens. I think they would work well for the main sheets but may make the tacking situation worse for the head sail sheets. I really enjoy the schooner rig for its flexible configurations which out weigh any issues with the sheets.

    I guess the bottom line is that sailing should involve some work and given the choice I prefer to live with the minimal deficiences of the junk rig than the major inconveniences of other types.
  • 25 Mar 2011 22:57
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    Reply # 553389 on 549348
    Anonymous member
    Well I guess that there are deep water sailors who only sail from one country to another, drop the hook and stay put, but I have to confess that day sailing in a new area is one of the great joys of voyaging.  So I too like to have sheets that do what they should.  However, when daysailing, one is usually in the cockpit or loafing around on deck, so it's much less of a big deal to get to one's feet and give the sheet a flick or two to free it.  My leach should be vertical but we will see.  Initially (in my usual optimistic fashion) I shall tie the sheetlets to the ends of the battens and hope that they don't snag, or if they do, that it is a relatively rare event.  Your lengths of rubber hose are there in my mind as a second attempt.  We shall see.

    Raining today, so no playing on the sail.  Nelson rain tends to bring an excess of grubbiness with it, and it would be nice to have a clean rig at least for the first sail!
  • 24 Mar 2011 20:20
    Quote
    Reply # 552742 on 549348
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Stavanger, Thu

    Annie

               .. there is tidiness and then there is "tidiness"...

    My very first tan junk sail was delivered from a sailmaker (W.G Lucas) in England. It was made in PJR standard; flat with closed batten pockets at the leech. To be kind to the pockets I terminated the 25mm aluminium battens with a well-rounded plug of epoxy (see NL24, p24). The battens still ended up poking out of the pockets within hours of sailing. A local repair job turned out to hold well. These batten pockets of course ensured that the battens ended flush with the leech so the sheetlets could not catch them. Still, much due to the sail being canted forward, H-M style, the whole bunch of sheets was frequently caught under the boom in long gybes.

    To me, doing mainly daysailing which includes lots of tacking and gybing during a day, I have focused a lot on making handling of the sail, hoisting, trimming and sheeting, as trouble-free as possible. That is my kind of tidiness; the functional version. A few creases here or there don’t upset my peace of mind.

    On Johanna’s sail the sheeting is next to vice-free. Since the mast is a bit short even this sail is tilted a bit forward when 7-up, so the use of batten extensions from rubber hose (see NL42, p21) is necessary to lift the sheetlets away from the batten ends. On Broremann the mast rakes a bit aft and so does the leech, so here the sheets never tangle with the battens or boom. This is why I often stress the benefit of making sails with vertical leech. But then I forget that deep water sailors probably don’t tack or gybe more in a week than I do in a few hours. And also, if port-sb. sheeting is used, it is probably better with forward-leaning leech, or?...

    Arne
  • 24 Mar 2011 18:59
    Quote
    Reply # 552664 on 552126
    Deleted user
    Annie Hill wrote: I have fitted (or more accurately, am in the process of having fitted) UV-resistant plastic inserts into the ends of the battens.  12mm holes are to be drilled 35 mm from each end and the sheetlets attached thereto.  Also the batten parrels.

    Hoping to fit the battens tomorrow; yard and boom bent on, working today and writing this in my lunch break!

    Sounds great.  I'm going to see if I can get something similar done affordably from the fabrication shop I'm getting battens from.  If not, I'll just have them drill some holes and use wood (and epoxy/fillers/cloth) which I can manage on my own.

    I would love to see drawings and/or pictures when you are done--I would jump at the chance to copy work that looks solid to people who have really used these sort of sails!

    Thanks,
    Barry
  • 23 Mar 2011 22:46
    Quote
    Reply # 552126 on 549348
    Anonymous member
    Annie, do you mean webbing loops to attach the sheetlets to the sail, or do you mean webbing loops to attach the battens to the sail (or boltrope)?

    Webbing loops to attach the battens to the sail.  I have fitted (or more accurately, am in the process of having fitted) UV-resistant plastic inserts into the ends of the battens.  12mm holes are to be drilled 35 mm from each end and the sheetlets attached thereto.  Also the batten parrels.  The Bible has it that the leech has to be absolutely flush with the batten, but in practice a little overlap is rarely a problem, from my experience.  In a soft gybe the sheetlets may foul the batten end, but these can be sorted out at leisure with a few flicks of the sheet.  It may look untidy for a while until you get round to sorting it, but I am in Arne's camp when it comes to a neat and tidy rig! 

    I'm hoping, Slieve, that these inserts will help me avoid your problem with stress points.  They are probably a bit more expensive than stainless steel bolts - I can get trade rates :-) - on the other hand, I get the holes drilled straight and true which might otherwise have been an issue.

    Hoping to fit the battens tomorrow; yard and boom bent on, working today and writing this in my lunch break!
  • 23 Mar 2011 18:43
    Quote
    Reply # 552008 on 549348
    Anonymous member
    I attach the battens to the sail and attach the sheetlets to the batten. No problems to date.

    I put the battens (when doing a normal style junk sail, not separate panels like on Aphrodite) in pockets but keep the ends open. Like wise, it has worked well for me.
    Last modified: 23 Mar 2011 18:43 | Anonymous member
  • 23 Mar 2011 14:18
    Quote
    Reply # 551785 on 551252
    Deleted user
    Annie Hill wrote: Robert's comments are interesting to me, because we went the same way on 'Badger'.  I am hoping to fit my battens today and my plan is once again to fasten everything to the battens with no extra loads on the sail.  I've sewn webbing loops onto my sail, with extra length sewn back into the body of the sail to spread the load - a little.  All it needs from my experience.

    Annie, do you mean webbing loops to attach the sheetlets to the sail, or do you mean webbing loops to attach the battens to the sail (or boltrope)?
  • 23 Mar 2011 09:53
    Quote
    Reply # 551671 on 549348
    Anonymous member

    Oh dear. I seem to have made my batten ends too simple. I drilled a hole across the end of the tubular batten with the intention of fitting 6mm bolts across as Arne has done, but then found the bolts to be expensive in SS. In the end I simply used small D shackles slipped over the edge of the tube and the pin screwed in from inside the tube. I then lashed everything to the shackles. On the sail I had the webbing loops that go round the batten, but also folded over loops that are parallel with the batten and flush with the leech and luff of the sail. I lashed this loop with about 3 turns of 3mm line to the shackle and also tied the sheet spans to the same shackles.

    During the first Round the Island Race when the rig was under severe pressure (boat full of water and full rig up on a force 6 run) we heard a sharp metallic ping aloft but couldn't see anything, so continued. When we dropped sail some 3 hours later we found that the hole for the shackle on the leech of the top sheeted batten had been placed too close to the end and had ripped out, but as the sail was lashed to the shackle and also the sheet tied to it the integrity of the rig had not been compromised. Next time I would tie the sheet spans directly to the sail webbing and simply attach the batten as a spreader strut to the sail.

    This is about as simple as you can get, but it works fine.

    Cheers, Slieve

    Last modified: 23 Mar 2011 09:53 | Anonymous member
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