Garhauer blocks, and 50sqm halyard layout

  • 19 Oct 2017 22:48
    Reply # 5322813 on 5313611
    Paul and David many thanks for reassurance re Selden. Their s/s ball and race blocks (the 500kg safe working load version of their Delrin roller bearing blocks) are not all that far from the catalogue price of the Garhauer of similar size, but then of course there'll be tax and shipping on those unlike the Selden. It is probably not of great relevance, but the Garhauer has a swl of  around 1200-1400kg! The Selden equivalent to that kind of swl is their Torlon roller bearing block (swl 1500kg) which is 4 or 5 times the price of the catalogue price of the Garhauer. I'm referring to around 60mm sheaves.

    It is interesting that you managed with a 3:1 halyard (and heaps less rope to deal with) on Tystie David. We'll have spare s/t winches at the cockpit after all, although if old habits die hard I may find myself hoisting at the mast - habit and also for the reasons that Annie brings up. The junk is unique in this respect, being able to get underway in a relaxed manner with 2 or 3 panels can't be done with other rigs. Even our gaff main with triced up tack and not-fully-hoisted peak could be a noisy, bearish and overpowering thing if the wind got up and you weren't yet clear of all obtacles! On the halyard set-up I do like Arne's two singles on the yard, one with becket, allowing for a spread of the load along the yard something like a gaff span. Like I say, old habits.....

    I'm not sure of the quality of our rope, Asmat. Some is old, some is new. But whatever it is i'm sure you're right that it'll be got round bigger sheaves more easily than littler ones.

    I need to look at Johanna's anti-twist sheeting....




  • 18 Oct 2017 16:06
    Reply # 5320249 on 5313611
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    All the mentioned friction factors listed here the last few days, are important  -  and then there are a few more:

    PJR warned about the friction from the down-hauling lines, the sheet(s), luff- and yard-hauling parrels. Apart from a short, initial period on Johanna, I have only used 3-part purchase for the sheets. I was struggling to hoist Johanna’s new 48sqm sail. First, that heavy wooden yard had to be replaced, and then the 5-part sheet was replaced with a 3-part ‘Pilmer sheeting’ and soon my special anti-twist ‘Johanna sheeting’. This (just) let me hoist the sail alone in the cockpit (5 panels by hand and two by the self-tailing winch), using the 5-part halyard. With a crewmember with me, I went to the mast and hoisted the sail from there while the crew in the cockpit took in the slack. The arrival of the Winchrite  electric winch handle came as a relief.

    When I sold Johanna, the Winchrite went with it, but when the next owner sold Johanna again, he kept the Winchrite, and gave it back to me(!)  -  plus that lovely Optimus 111 stove.

    The 20sqm sail of Frøken Sørensen had only 3-part halyard, but was still very easy to hoist. On the twice as heavy sail on Ingeborg, I am again back on 5-part halyard, and now the Winchrite is regularly used when the sail is going up. Shaking out reefs, on the other hand, is done by hand.

    Since wear and tear during long-term offshore sailing is a worry to some of you, it strikes me right now that the load on each halyard sheave will drop to 60% if you change from 3-part to 5-part halyard. Worth a thought?

    Arne

    PS: Avoiding sharp (hi-friction) angles in and out of jammers, must not be forgotten.


    Last modified: 18 Oct 2017 16:08 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 18 Oct 2017 11:24
    Reply # 5319884 on 5313611

    While we are thinking about friction in halyards, blocks are only half the story. Branwen's  halyards are 10mm, 32 strand braid on braid polyester found on eBay for a bargain price. I now regret this pennypinching, for while this line is strong and resists wear well, it is rather stiff, resisting every turn on the 6 sheaves around which it passes. I feel that a more flexible rope would make hoisting the sail a lot easier. Big blocks would also help. The larger the sheave diameter, the better.

  • 18 Oct 2017 07:51
    Reply # 5319730 on 5313611

    I'm not sure that it's the friction at that deck turning block.  I, too, find it a lot easier to haul the sail up by the mast, the drawback being that you get miles of rope to put back where it belongs.  However, I think it's much more to do with the fact that at the mast you get a good grip with both hands above your head and, if needs be, can use all your weight to haul on the halliard.  At the cockpit, you are hauling horizontally, often with less secure footing and unable to throw your whole weight into the task.

    But, as you say, Graham: there's no necessity to sail out under full sail; indeed you are often better being a little slower, if there are lots of boats about.  On Fantail, I usually just hoisted four or five panels and pulled the rest up once clear of the anchorage.  I could do the whole lot without the winch in light conditions, but found the winch a lot easier to use when I couldn't steer with my foot and had to dash back and forth twixt halliard and tiller.

  • 18 Oct 2017 00:09
    Reply # 5319365 on 5313611

    Following David Tyler's advice some years ago, I replaced my double block at the masthead with two large, high-quality single blocks, which both improved the lead of the fall and reduced friction on my three-part halyard.  I can clearly see the two blocks at the masthead lying in different planes.  Like David Thatcher, though, I still find it much easier to hoist from the mast than from the cockpit.  That deck turning block seems to add a lot of friction.  Nonetheless, I can easily hoist half of my 35sq m sail from the cockpit and then use the self-tailing winch to do the rest.  Some days when I have had a good breakfast I can even get it most of the way up by hand!  I have recently learned the trick of just hoisting a few panels to gain steerage way when sailing off the anchor, then hoisting the rest when clear of other boats.  I don't like hoisting sail before I cat the anchor, as the forward end of the boom is right over the anchor winch and I get annoyed when it swats me, so I cat the anchor, then stroll aft and hoist a few panels, sail clear of other vessels, then hoist the rest.  Recently there was a sudden wind shift just as I was hoisting the head of the sail.  I was unable to clear the bows of the nearest yacht and had to gybe and pass under its stern, to the consternation of the other crew.  Once they saw how easy it was to handle Arion though under just the top three panels, they applauded.

  • 17 Oct 2017 05:43
    Reply # 5317932 on 5316317
    Deleted user
    David Tyler wrote:

    When I changed Tystie's halyard blocks from Barton size 7 to Garhauer (I don't recall the size), there was a notable decrease in friction, so that I thought it money well spent. 


    Maybe I should make more effort to find some suitable blocks! I notice though the the load comes on the halyard when lead through the deck turning block back to the cockpit. It is fairly easy to hoist the sail at the mast by hand, but it is that last deck block that makes the big friction difference, and there I have got a good quality modern bearing block.
  • 16 Oct 2017 09:19
    Reply # 5316317 on 5313611

    When I changed Tystie's halyard blocks from Barton size 7 to Garhauer (I don't recall the size), there was a notable decrease in friction, so that I thought it money well spent. 

    I used to work at Kemp Masts/Seldèn UK, but that was a quarter of a century ago, before the current range of blocks was designed. Nevertheless, knowing how pernickety my Swedish colleagues were, I make no doubt that the quality of engineering will be high. I would choose between Seldèn and Garhauer on the basis of price and availability.

    I have long been a fan of using a 3:1 halyard plus a self tailing winch as being the best for convenience and efficiency. More than 3:1, and the length of line that needs stowing is huge. Even at 3:1, it's a 50m halyard for a sail of 50+ sq m. I could manage to hand-haul the first half of the sail hoist, which is enough to give some steerage way, but not excessive speed, in confined waters. Then I could take a breather, and winch up the second half of the sail.

    A 3:1 halyard only needs two single blocks at the masthead, spaced well apart at 5 o'clock and 7 o'clock, with a single and becket on the yard. But if a 5:1 halyard is rigged, I'd put a double block on the port side, with a single block on the starboard side for the fall. Double and triple blocks hate having the fall leading off at a different angle to the rest of the parts, as this leads to rubbing of the line against the cheek of the block, and eventually, structural failure or jamming of the halyard between sheave and cheek.

  • 16 Oct 2017 06:17
    Reply # 5316255 on 5315802
    Deleted user
    POL BERGIUS wrote:

    Thanks a lot, Annie. They must be very sure of their quality, which is reassuring! Their working load spec is massively more than I have seen in any other blocks, so there must be a lot of extra life built into them for the likes of us. I emailed them via their website and got a surprisingly off-hand response when asking how I could get hold of their blocks in the UK, to completely re-rig my boat with their blocks! So I'm still considering Selden blocks with s/s races and s/s ball bearings for that reason, which are readily available here at lower cost, no tax & international shipping... But the Garhauer do look good!

    All the best,

    Pol. 

    Even a simple block will work well for a very long time. I keep talking about getting some new super low friction halyard blocks for Footprints, but so far have not found anything of the right configuration. But Footprints is 20 years young this year and her very simple and basic halyard blocks, (we are talking about 40 years ago technology), were already second hand when fitted to Footprints at her time of launching, and to tell the truth, I am not sure just what an investment of at least several hundred dollars would gain me in ease of hoisting the sail.
    Last modified: 16 Oct 2017 06:19 | Deleted user
  • 16 Oct 2017 00:23
    Reply # 5315844 on 5315802
    POL BERGIUS wrote:

     So I'm still considering Selden blocks with s/s races and s/s ball bearings for that reason, which are readily available here at lower cost, no tax & international shipping... But the Garhauer do look good!

    All the best,

    Pol. 

    Seldon blocks are good. I've had them on board LC since 2012 without any issues what so ever... and they still look like new.
  • 15 Oct 2017 22:39
    Reply # 5315802 on 5313611

    Thanks a lot, Annie. They must be very sure of their quality, which is reassuring! Their working load spec is massively more than I have seen in any other blocks, so there must be a lot of extra life built into them for the likes of us. I emailed them via their website and got a surprisingly off-hand response when asking how I could get hold of their blocks in the UK, to completely re-rig my boat with their blocks! So I'm still considering Selden blocks with s/s races and s/s ball bearings for that reason, which are readily available here at lower cost, no tax & international shipping... But the Garhauer do look good!

    All the best,

    Pol. 

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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