Sail Twist

  • 26 Aug 2017 20:41
    Reply # 5049994 on 5032620

    hi ron

    Ron Bokenfohr wrote:

    …Very interesting that twist could be a function of triangular shape.

    there are differrent reasons to open the head of bm sails – and sometimes you need a lot of twist…

    highly twisted bm sails

    utnik

    Last modified: 26 Aug 2017 20:42 | Anonymous member
  • 26 Aug 2017 15:45
    Reply # 5049648 on 5032620
    Deleted user

    Thank you very much for your comments.  It does seem that wind sheer is less over 10 knots and really only very much of a factor under 6 knots.  I calculated less than 4 degrees change in wind direction from the bottom of the mast to the top.  I guess twist would reduce induced drag but also at the cost of lift.  Very interesting that twist could be a function of triangular shape.

    Ron

  • 21 Aug 2017 09:27
    Reply # 5039564 on 5032620

    Ron, 

    Sorry not to respond earlier but I've been in the French Alps without consistent wifi contact for the last week. You possibly got the idea from the article titled 'To Twist or Not to Twist, That is the Question' in the last two columns of page 28 of JRA magazine 70. The parallel sided Split rigs really needs only a few degrees of twist. Does that help?

    Cheers, Slieve.

  • 18 Aug 2017 09:39
    Reply # 5035119 on 5032620
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
     

    If I understand the experts’ texts correctly, we are actually sailing in a quite thick (20 - 100m) boundary layer of wind. The wind is weaker near the earth’s surface, and gets stronger and stronger higher up.

    Firstly, we sheet our sails to the relative, apparent wind direction, not the true wind. If we are sailing on a (true) beam reach, doing 4 knots in  8knots wind, the resultant wind will appear to hit us at 63° from the bow, not 90°.

    Secondly, since we, as said, are sailing in that thick boundary layer, the wind strength will be higher at the top of our sail than near the boom. Let ‘s say the 8kts wind above was measured at boom level. If we imagine that the wind is 11kts near the top, the apparent wind direction would be 70° from the bow up there. This alone is enough to call for some (7°) twist in the sail.

    I agree with David that camber could well be used all the way to the top panel. However, I have chosen to make my sails with a fanned top with just a little camber in the top panels, and that for three reasons:

    ·         This planform lets one have the tallest and biggest sail for a given mast length. I want all the area I can pile on for the downwind leg.

    ·         The flatter top panels make up my ‘storm sail’. Since I cannot alter the camber under way, I have to compromise and cut these panels to suit stronger winds.

    ·         Actually, just by chance (no planning), I have found that when my sails are deeply reefed, the top three panels get a bit extra twist in them, and this seems to add a bit to the camber. I have found the top section to be remarkably powerful. The tacking angle is wider than with seven panels up, but that could well be due to increased parasitic drag from the masts etc., not only due to the lower AR or efficiency of the reefed sail. We surely sail to windward with only three panels up.

    Arne

      

    Last modified: 18 Aug 2017 18:11 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 18 Aug 2017 08:37
    Reply # 5035061 on 5032620

    The aerodynamicists tell us that the top of a triangular sail carries more than its fair share of loading per unit of area, and unless it is flattened and/or allowed to twist off, it will stall before the rest of the sail, resulting in more drag and less drive. This would also apply to the top of a high-peaked junk sail, but we tend to make these upper panels flatter anyway.

    A sail that tends more towards a rectangular planform, with a low angled yard, carries less loading per unit of area near the head, and can be cambered more in this area. But still, as Arne says, you need to use telltales, or some other means of checking the airflow, to check that the whole sail, from top to bottom, is neither stalled nor empty of wind and not pulling.

  • 18 Aug 2017 05:08
    Reply # 5034920 on 5032620
    Deleted user

    Thanks Arne,

    I wonder if anyone else has any further thoughts on sail twist.  Twist at the top of the sail should shift the force vector forward, reducing heel and reduce induced drag.

    Ron

  • 17 Aug 2017 10:26
    Reply # 5033602 on 5032620
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Ron,

    my basic attitude is that the junk sail is just another sail. I make them with cambered panels and set them with a moderate twist for the same reasons as the Bermudian rigs are given twist.

    To monitor if I get it right, I have fitted one telltale at the leech of each panel. If there is too little twist, then the telltales indicate a stall in the top panels before the others, and vice versa.

    However, with the sail well reefed, some twist in the fanned top section seems to help. Graham Cox just described how he added twist to the sail of his Arion. His method seems to be good, with the yard with less twist than the next two battens.

    Arne


  • 16 Aug 2017 18:22
    Message # 5032620
    Deleted user

    I apologize if this has been covered elsewhere.  I read that some junk rigs should be set with less twist or no twist.  This seems a departure from the world of BM rigs.  Does anyone have a thought on why less twist in the Junk rig is preferable?

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