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Alloy tubing battens

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  • 03 Apr 2012 20:24
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    Reply # 881072 on 499740
    Deleted user
    Hi Barry, Good to hear that you've found a solution, albeit painful, to stop your sparkly carbon fibre masts from being ravaged by the spars. I've still got to sort that one onParadox. The slow progress bug seems to have spread worldwide... 

    Matanie, our Sunbird 32 which you looked at in Portugal, used standard transparent waterpipe on the battens to protect the alloy masts - did the job over some 30-odd years.

    In the few short and calm trips we did last season it wasn't the rapping that the carbon fibre masts got from the spars that bothered me, but the wear and tear on their white Awlgrip paintwork (which we haven't touched yet) from the running rigging, particularly the batten parrels when on starboard tack, and luff hauling parrels when set up tight, which they seem to have to be most of the time to try to keep cambered panels happy.

    I guess the batten parrels could have pipe protection, but am not sure what can be done about the other parrels. We carbon mast-ers may just have to live with flaky paint. Hope you painted the masts to match the underlying carbon...
    Last modified: 03 Apr 2012 20:26 | Deleted user
  • 03 Apr 2012 04:11
    Quote
    Reply # 880521 on 499740
    Deleted user
    Well...it took just about a week, but I have now got some chafe protection on everything but my main yard. I found vinyl hose to fit all the other battens and the mizzen yard. (I believe very similar to what Robert Groves used)

    My nearly-fatal mistake was buying enough hose to test one of each size of batten, forcing them on without too much trouble...and then going to a different Lowes Hardware to buy the rest of it.

    If anybody else ever tries this, the tolerance in this sort of hose is pretty sloppy, compared to aluminum tubes used for battens. The second batch of hose, for all but one of my main battens (2" ID / 2.5" OD hose) was MUCH tighter than the first "test" piece. If I had tested that one, I probably would have given up and done something different. Instead I blistered both hands and didn't even get it all the way on.

    Too bad it was too much work to stop and take a picture of the rig with a PVC pipe adapted down to pull the hose on but slide over the batten, and a 5:1 purchase, boiling water, a heat gun, various water-based lubricants.

    I hope it works well...but I think next time I design a rig from scratch, I'll do like David did and sew foam and webbing onto the batten pockets.

    Since the hose doesn't come big enough, I think I've got a bit of LDPE sheet (1/8" thick) left over that I can bend around the main yard and lash together. Gotta dig under the V-berth and check the size of it tomorrow.

    Finally it feels a lot more like progress. Slow yes, but definite progress again!
  • 02 Apr 2012 08:15
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    Reply # 874313 on 499740
    Anonymous member
    Hello Flutterby,

    With alloy tubing battens and painted, epoxy-glassed hexagonal masts, I used leather for fendering first time around, and never will again. It was really shippy and satisfying at first. But it abraded through paint and considerable glass sheathing through to bare wood in some places, before 4000 miles.

    Now mehitabel has polythene (LDPE) waterpipe for fendering and it seems fine, but has few miles and waves on it. It's slipped over the backing battens on the mast side of the sail. It's easy to work with and it's already curved. On the yards I put a clunky-looking but very shock-absorbing bundle of small-diameter waterpipe. To hold that in place I drilled holes and put heavy zap straps or cord through. Definitely not charming to look at. On the square booms I split a large-diameter pipe and forced it to hug the boom, tied on with zap straps. Quiet, slippery, cushiony, almost 1/4" thick to wear through, ugly...

    Cheers,
    Kurt


    Last modified: 02 Apr 2012 08:16 | Anonymous member
  • 26 Mar 2012 21:11
    Quote
    Reply # 868840 on 499740
    Anonymous member
    Hi Barry, long time no see :-)
    I think the choice is between un-bendable, narrow strips thick enough to recess a countersunk screw or rivet, and that means 1/4"; or thinner, bendable strips that will wrap around a spar, to be fastened above and below the contact point, and that means about 0.125" for a 2.5" spar. I wouldn't want to go thinner than this, because of the risk of tearing away from the fastener. Thus, I wouldn't do a wrap around strip on a small diameter batten. 
    The first option has been used successfully. For a small diameter batten, I would cut a strip from 1/4" sheet of a width equal to the diameter, so that it is not inclined to rotate when pushed against the mast.
    On the new sails that we have just made for Footprints and Tystie, we have built the fenders onto the batten pockets, in the form of strips of closed cell foam 3/4" x 5/16", underneath 2" car seat belt webbing, which is hard and shiny, and resists wear.
  • 26 Mar 2012 16:16
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    Reply # 868612 on 499768
    Deleted user
    David Tyler wrote:Polythene is good, but it must be black to withstand UV. My advice is to get thick sheet Polythene, cut it into strips...

    David, I am looking at doing this again...and let me ask you to qualify what you said:

    "thick sheet" polythene means what approximately? I see stuff I can order online between .020" and 1/4" which all could be "thick sheet" I can buy it in even more varied thicknesses, but expect that is the range I would be talking about.

    In my case, it would need to bend around a batten or yard, diameters ranging from 1.25" to 2.25" if that would impact your thinking.

    Thanks!
  • 09 Mar 2011 00:33
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    Reply # 541765 on 499740
    Deleted user
    I've picked out the alloy tubing battens I will be buying (mizzen: 11 foot x 1.25 inch dia x .062 inch wall; main: 18 foot x 2 inch dia x .062 inch wall).  Meps and I put a lot of effort and money into surface repair and repainting of our carbon fiber masts, and we do want to protect them.  Also, our yards are thick-walled aluminum pipe, and will have the same issues.  I've been considering fendering options, and saw lots of choices in this thread:
    • High Pressure hose (fabric reinforced rubber), much work to install but stuck well in place.
    • Polythene tubing or strips (AKA polyethylene in the US); (Black is UV resistant)
    • I suspect that UHMW polytethylene might perform better than the regular type.
    • Heavy fabric (cordura)
    • Heavy fabric over closed cell foam
    • I saw a pic of something like pipe insulation lashed onto a yard.
    We will probably have quite a bit of two-inch webbing left over from the boltrope, so using it sounds good to me.

    Many of these were recommended by people with aluminum alloy masts.  How have things worked for people with painted masts?  Any other good ideas or strong votes for one or another?

    Thanks, everybody!
    Barry
  • 05 Feb 2011 09:40
    Quote
    Reply # 516185 on 515920
    Deleted user
    David Tyler wrote:
    Ron Atherton wrote:

    I am considering changins some of my wooden battens on my missen sail for tubular aluminium possibly with hinges I am considering  the design by Arne Kverneland in newsletter 54. What I need is some advice on tube diametre and wall thickness. My forward sail which has a battern length of 19ft. 6ins. takes up a nice aerofoil shape and I am quite happy with this, but my missen sail 15ft. on battern length is very flat and I am considering replacing the four lower batterns with hinged batterns in an effort to put shape into the sail may be barking up the wrong tree but would appreciate some comments I would like to replace both sails with soft wing but at this time finances do not permit this

    Ron Atherton Butterfly

    Ron, it could be easier, better and cheaper to put hinges into your wooden battens. Pete Hill did this, and sailed a lot of ocean miles. Basically, you cut wedge shapes on the ends of the batten halves, and insert them into a short, square or rectangular, tube of alloy. Contact Pete via his 'profile' for further details, I'm sure he'll tell you more.
    Thanks a lot David it sounds good I will get in touch with Pete
  • 04 Feb 2011 21:02
    Quote
    Reply # 515932 on 515918
    Deleted user
    Your battens have seen some rough weather, Bob, so must be considered proven. But what length are they? I guess 12ft, as on Badger. Butterfly needs 15ft battens, and I'd want to use 1 1/4" x 1/8" or 1 3/4" x 1/16" tube.

    I can't remember exactly how long Easy Go's battens are but they are not as long as 15 ft. They have seen some rough weather and I do not hesitate to recommend them. The length you need would might induce some s-bending but the battens could be stiffened with doweling. internally, if required.

    Last modified: 04 Feb 2011 21:02 | Deleted user
  • 04 Feb 2011 20:54
    Quote
    Reply # 515920 on 515646
    Anonymous member
    Ron Atherton wrote:

    I am considering changins some of my wooden battens on my missen sail for tubular aluminium possibly with hinges I am considering  the design by Arne Kverneland in newsletter 54. What I need is some advice on tube diametre and wall thickness. My forward sail which has a battern length of 19ft. 6ins. takes up a nice aerofoil shape and I am quite happy with this, but my missen sail 15ft. on battern length is very flat and I am considering replacing the four lower batterns with hinged batterns in an effort to put shape into the sail may be barking up the wrong tree but would appreciate some comments I would like to replace both sails with soft wing but at this time finances do not permit this

    Ron Atherton Butterfly

    Ron, it could be easier, better and cheaper to put hinges into your wooden battens. Pete Hill did this, and sailed a lot of ocean miles. Basically, you cut wedge shapes on the ends of the batten halves, and insert them into a short, square or rectangular, tube of alloy. Contact Pete via his 'profile' for further details, I'm sure he'll tell you more.
  • 04 Feb 2011 20:53
    Quote
    Reply # 515919 on 499740
    Deleted user

    The batten pockets cover the HP hose with chafe protection made from seat belt webbing. We tried some of the North American cars but have found that the webbing from scrapped Russian Lada's was far superior. Found the webbing free in a car wrecker at the back field of a farm. After two Atlantic crossings there is no wear.

    Inside the cabin we put carpeting on the aluminum mast with nice lashings. No more cold jolts to the back at the nav station from leaning against the mast in cold climates. Minimal noise as well.
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