Barry & Meps / Stellrecht & Schulte wrote: I'm going to sew batten pockets, as it sure looks nice and easy compared to the other choices when starting from blank canvas.  The only interesting thing I am going to do is make each pocket in a few sections two or three feet long with ~inch gaps between them.  I figure it will make it easier to use scraps from around my sail panels, and give me easy places to tie things to the battens (like lashing two adjacent battens together to fix a rip).

But this does bring to mind another question:

My boom is sized like just one more batten.  Could I just sew a pocket for it and slide the boom into it just the same way?  The pocket may need a few more holes in it for attaching the lazy jacks and perhaps other rigging.

Am I missing something important that makes this a bad idea?

Thanks,
Barry

Stavanger, Sunday

Barry

Although I have used batten pocket in all but one of my sails I have always laced the boom to the sail. This is to have freedom to attach the lazy jacks anywhere. However, if you already now are sure where you want to attach your lazy jacks, you could just place the gaps between the "boom pockets" there. I can’t see why it should not work.

Good luck!

Arne

Annie, thank you for your excellent pocket alternative, it sounds much more achievable for us.
Slieve thank you for the 'batten grooves'. The lashings showed no real signs of wear but those holes did concern me - as much in terms of water ingress as the potential for wear on the lashings.  Annie's idea of eyebolts is
David, I am somewhat relieved that the 'quarter' method applies to battens too!
Gary, do you have any photos of your webbing??

Thank you all once again.  And now onto our next 'challenge'....

Batten pockets make attaching the battens very easy, but attaching them to a pre-existing sail is a bit of a hassle. An easier way would be to put 50 mm wide straps every 80 cm or so - you could use webbing for this: cover it in UV stable fabric if the webbing isn't stabilised.

Your bamboo battens should have nice knuckles on them, so you may not need any fittings if you brush up on your gripping knots, eg Prusick (which I have just learnt and am now besotted with!) 

An alternative to pop-riveting your fittings, would be an eyebolt, or threaded rod with eyes at each end, if you don't have access to, or don't fancy using a pop-riveter.

Just a few ideas - I haven't seen your rig so they may not work.

Dear David, Arne and Slieve,

Many thanks for your responses I do appreciate your help.

David, you're right, I do so wish we had pockets. Would they have to be made of the same material as the sails?  Lashing a quarter of the sail at a time seems a really good idea, am I right in thinking that this would be only for the boom and not for the battens that will need to be lashed separately?
I don't understand about the bamboo battens and the bolt rope. Can you put a photo of what you have in photo album in your profile, please?
I assumed from Arne's files that as you sew on the bolt rope and reach the batten position, you splice in a loop into which the end of the batten sits. With regular sized alloy battens, these loops are regular sizes. Our bamboo battens are all slightly different sizes, so I figured that part would be a real pain.! I've some pictures of the original lashings, showing the battens -I'll post those.
Arne's idea of attaching boltrope and then adding small loops above the batten positions and attaching the battens to these makes sense. (waddya mean was I kidding about the tapered splices, Arne?!)
"It appears to me that you (may) want to rope most of the sail with a boltrope and then tie the batten ends to it."
The yard has a track on it, so I think I'm now looking at bolt-roping just the luff and leach? Would you recommend I attach the boltrope to the yard and the boom at each end or should I just finish the boltrope around the corner of the sail (or, heaven forbid, taper it even??!!)
I would do one and cut it off the roll, then untie it and measure it and cut and seal the ends of the rest of them in a warm place. Then you could do them a few at a time without getting too cold.
Excellent idea! I have to admit we had 23 degrees last week and our cockpit is now painted, but cold and damp is forecast now that the Chinese New Year is over!!

Many thanks for all your help
Lesley

Stavanger, Wed. 20110119

Lesley

It appears to me that you (may) want to rope most of the sail with a boltrope and then tie the batten ends to it. This was the way I fitted the bolt-rope and batten ends to Malena’s cambered panel sail. I actually copied Vincent Reddish’s method described in NL 22 p.19, para. 3. To take the vertical component of the sheet forces I spliced in hoops on the boltrope for the battens to rest in as I worked my way around the sail. I guess it is these hoops that worry you. An alternative would be to splice (or just knot) in a little loop about 5cm above each batten station. The battens could then be laced to the bolt rope and with an extra lacing up to that loop. This method would not give problems with varying sizes of battens.

Another way would be to tie the batten ends to existing grommets at luff and leech. An extra bolt-rope is then just fitted to the backside of the sail to strengthen the tabling of the sail and avoid any critical ripping to start there.

The forces along the boom are next to nil. On my first flat sail (from W.G. Lucas Sails) the tack and clew had been reinforced with several patches and huge (hydraulic) grommets were fitted. I reckon this was a 100 times overkill. For the whole summer I had the clew tied to the boom with just one single, waxed lacing thread and it never broke! So you can safely skip the boltrope along the boom and just lace it to the grommets as David suggests above. His way of lacing the battens also makes sense to me.

Good luck!

Arne

PS: Tapered splices?? You're kidding, right???