JR conversion for Marcon Sabre 27

  • 07 Mar 2017 08:58
    Reply # 4652344 on 4651075
    Deleted user
    Richard Oates wrote:

    I've been giving this a lot of thought and I see your point abut my design, I reckon I would use a couple of sheets of 12mm ply and lots of epoxy not to mention all the cutting. I like your idea of a bucket as a mould. The only problem I can see is getting a decent looking finish on the outside. I know how hard it is to get unmoulded glassfibre to take on a smooth finish. I wonder if this could be achieved by another outer mould with resin poured between it and the glassfibre tube created first? Or indeed could it be cast with two buckets forming a 3D mould and using resin and chopped loose fibre. It sounds a bit of a messy solution fraught with dangers! Maybe an aluminium tube fabricated round ply discs as a former then welded to an inclined plate would be a good way to go, thus producing a nice external finish. The inner conical tube could be formed using the inverted bucket and poured epoxy resin.

    richard hi

    Use Epoxy, one of the nice things about epoxy is it does not like sticking to plastic so as long as you can flex the bucket it will pop out

    if your really worried about it get an old inner tube cut off the valve leaving a circle of rubber , drill a hole in bottom of bucket , fix valve so it sticks out hold in place with some silicone coat the side of the rubber that will come in contact with epoxy with vaseline

    lay up your epoxy and fiber mat . we use MAS low vis with a slow hardener for this . if your i uk or europe junk rig members get a special price on this.

    once set put a air line on valve and it will push out

  • 06 Mar 2017 19:36
    Reply # 4651323 on 4619716

    If you decide to go with aluminium, you might try 
    http://www.doremetals.co.uk/aluminium/tube/ 
    for a piece of ready made tube. They list much larger sizes than most companies. With cylindrical partners, you can use pairs of opposing wedges, so that you don't have to form a conical hole.

    I wouldn't think it too difficult to finish the outside of a moulded cylinder. Much easier than finishing the hull of a boat made on a male mould, anyway! Let's say three layers of heavy woven rovings, alternating with three layers of heavy chopped strand mat ( similar to the traditional layup of GRP hulls). Let it cure, then grind back to remove the bumps, but not all the hollows. Then a layer of thinner glass cloth followed by sandable filler (glass microspheres).

  • 06 Mar 2017 18:21
    Reply # 4651075 on 4619716

    I've been giving this a lot of thought and I see your point abut my design, I reckon I would use a couple of sheets of 12mm ply and lots of epoxy not to mention all the cutting. I like your idea of a bucket as a mould. The only problem I can see is getting a decent looking finish on the outside. I know how hard it is to get unmoulded glassfibre to take on a smooth finish. I wonder if this could be achieved by another outer mould with resin poured between it and the glassfibre tube created first? Or indeed could it be cast with two buckets forming a 3D mould and using resin and chopped loose fibre. It sounds a bit of a messy solution fraught with dangers! Maybe an aluminium tube fabricated round ply discs as a former then welded to an inclined plate would be a good way to go, thus producing a nice external finish. The inner conical tube could be formed using the inverted bucket and poured epoxy resin.

  • 03 Mar 2017 18:39
    Reply # 4646253 on 4619716

    Making the mast partners this way, out of plywood, is going to take an awful lot of plywood, and will be expensive unless you happen have a large pile of offcuts already. When the mast has to go through an angled surface like this, it makes sense to think about a cylinder, either of metal or GRP, with a flange welded/moulded onto it at an angle, to bolt to the deck.  

    Here's an idea for you: your drawing is showing a mast of 180mm diameter, so the internal diameter of the partners will be of the order of 200 - 220mm diameter. I happen to have a 10 litre plastic bucket that could act as a mould of that diameter, for laying up a thick tapered tube using lots of woven rovings on top of a gel coat. You get a ready-made taper suitable for either wedges or poured polyurethane, which you wouldn't get easily if you got someone to weld up something from alloy or stainless steel. Getting a smoothly tapered hole through plywood layers takes time, too.

    You'll have seen the photo of my mast step. I still like this method. Just make the tenon as large as it can be within the diameter of the mast.

  • 03 Mar 2017 15:49
    Reply # 4645812 on 4619716
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    Richard,

    Is this the drawing you want to show us?


    I guess I would make those plywood partners (mast support at deck) a little broader, almost as broad as the hatch, to spread the load a little more over the front end of the cabin and the deck.

    I also suggest you drop that hardwood plug at the mast step. Instead, I recommend adding 2-3 more layers of plywood with a hole for mast in it. If you look up Phil Brown’s (“Boat of the month, Mars 2017”) member’s album, you can see the maststep he made.

    Doing away with the water tank is just good. You may find that the water in that tank weighs as much as the new mast. Hopefully you find room for a bladder tank or two, closer to the CG of the boat.

    Arne

    Last modified: 03 Mar 2017 16:10 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 03 Mar 2017 11:14
    Reply # 4645418 on 4619716

    I have been reading a lot of earlier posts from you all, including one on the ‘Bad Tack’ issue and am now beginning to understand things in better detail and the amazing depth to which the JRA site goes. It must be a bit frustrating having to go over the same ground again with newcomers like me. All this information on sail camber and performance is fascinating and very instructive.

    I have now visited the boat and established that the mast will fit forward of the hatch very nicely, it's definiteley the best position for it.First I will have to remove the existing water tanks and modify them. I have drawn up, here , how I think the masts supports can be configured (not sure what to call them) I am assuming that the upper support has wedges to locate the mast firmly and I assume these would be perhaps 35mm wide and sanded to the mast curvature and fitted all round the mast tightly. How would these be held down, friction alone? Any comment on this would be welcome. I am assuming that the upper support is an inverted cone with a bit of play at the lower end , I guess this allows for a certain amount of misalignment when the mast is lowered in. Wedges then hold it accurately in place after the lower end is properly located. Please correct me if I am wrong. I'm sure there must be info on the site somewhere regarding this but at the moment I cannot find it.

    Having spent so much time thinking “junk rig’ I was surprised that when I was on the boat the Bermudan setup looked like an awful lot of clobber in comparison, I can already see the clean simplicity of the JR mast in place. However, there are a few hurdles yet to surmount (apart from actually making it all) including the sale of  small trimaran I built to fund it, and getting my other half to accept yet more expenditure on a boat that has already had it’s fair share off funds!


  • 26 Feb 2017 20:18
    Reply # 4636276 on 4635340
    David Tyler wrote: Your link takes me to Contender UK, Annie. Safety Components is the manufacturer in the USA.
    Stupid me - I didn't click any further, because the NZ page took me to the appropriate supplier!  Amazing that it should be so expensive in the UK.  It might be worth considering speaking with Sebastian about it - he might have a supplier in Europe that's cheaper.  Now that I check back, I see I actually did buy it from Contender :-[
  • 26 Feb 2017 11:55
    Reply # 4635423 on 4634966
    Annie Hill wrote:
    Richard Oates wrote:With regard to pubs, there’s only the Dalton left now!


    You're joking.  That's tragic: there were three in the village when I was there, two Thwaites and a Boddingtons - although the Dalton Arms was my favourite - and one on the road to Lancaster, Boddingtons, - The Stork: it had a wrought-iron bird as its inn sign.   They did splendid fish and chips and my old friend Eric used to take me out for lunch there on occasion.

    I've heard that the drink/driving laws are killing off British pubs, but am shocked to hear such clear evidence of it.  It ain't the country I remember.


    Sorry to mislead you, the Stork is still there and thriving, it's the one North of the dock thats closed.
  • 26 Feb 2017 07:49
    Reply # 4635340 on 4634985
    Annie Hill wrote:
    David Tyler wrote:

    That does sound expensive for Weathermax, but they are the only source.

    I was quoted $49 per metre from one source, bought mine for $20 per metre and, had I bought a full roll could have got it for $18 per metre (all plus GST).  $20 is about GBP11.56 at today's rate.  My supplier was Safety Components and I see that you have the same company in the UK.  They might well be worth contacting.  (I never asked Contender to quote me.)
    Your link takes me to Contender UK, Annie. Safety Components is the manufacturer in the USA.
  • 26 Feb 2017 00:16
    Reply # 4634985 on 4633927
    David Tyler wrote:

    That does sound expensive for Weathermax, but they are the only source.

    I was quoted $49 per metre from one source, bought mine for $20 per metre and, had I bought a full roll could have got it for $18 per metre (all plus GST).  $20 is about GBP11.56 at today's rate.  My supplier was Safety Components and I see that you have the same company in the UK.  They might well be worth contacting.  (I never asked Contender to quote me.)
       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

                                                              Site contents © the Junk Rig Association and/or individual authors

Powered by Wild Apricot Membership Software