Getting the rudder ready for a junk rig.

  • 04 Jan 2017 12:17
    Reply # 4506656 on 4458527
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    James,

    I like your idea of keeping the outboard engine in centre and then fit one small aux rudder on each side of it for the windvane. All my sailboats have had outboard engines and all of them have been more or less offset to one side, except the one on my earlier boat, Johanna. I found the centered position of that engine to give least problems  - I could even motorsail on both tacks.

    If an outboard engine and a rudder had to compete about space on a transom for another boat, I might compromise: The engine would be offset 20cm to starboard and the rudder 20cm to port. Then, both rudder and engine should work well even when heeling 30°. For harbour manoeuvres I would have a link between them ready, to let me do tighter turns.

    As for the Belcher windvanes. I have an OGT MkII. This worked well on my Malena. One thing could be improved though; the course setting pulley.

    Look (click on) at that photo. The course-setting line tended to slip. Now, after having played with my notch-type tiller brake, here is what  will do if the gear is to be put back in work: I would fill up the groove in that course-setting pulley with some thick putty, say Sikaflex, or whatever. While still soft, I would make a v-shaped furrow in the putty. The course-setting line could then act as a v-belt and would most probably not slip.

    Arne

    PS: I hope you fit an endplate to the rudder as well. Experience has proven that it works.


  • 31 Dec 2016 18:52
    Reply # 4492391 on 4458527
    Deleted user

    I may have solved the issue, but thanks for the input.


    I found some pulleys at the hardware store that can flat mount to to a piece of wood via the back of the pulley bracket. I put new wire rope, bought a crimping tool and nicro pressed the  thimbles in instead of using the bulldog clamps just to make it a bit cleaner of an install. 

    I tension the system with turnbuckles aft connecting the lines to the rudder shaft. 


    This fix cost me $80 including a bunch of spare wire rope, hardware store pulleys, Nicro press crimp tool and other hardware.

    I am currently searching for higher quality stainless steel pins to replace the questionable ones that came standard with the pulleys.  


    Hopefully it is fixed for good now, but I will not know until I have a few hundred more miles under my keel with the improved system. I was only having issues in one specific spot every time something went wrong, so at least the issue was consistent. Hopefully these cheap hardware store pulleys are up for the job, if not I will have to make my own blocks as I refuse to pay $30 for something I would need to modify to get to work anyway.  If I eliminated the abrasion that was occurring, I think I should be in good shape. Only time will tell, and I have plenty of spares. 

    I have moved on to the next stage of my junk rig conversion, enlarging the rudder and sorting out the details of the self steering and aux rudders. 

    I am debating building an entirely new rudder and using a new rudder shaft, but that is more work and more money. I would like to just enlarge my stock rudder a bit. Any input on how to go about that? Arne suggested just gluing plywood to the sides to increase the length of my trailing edge. I think this would be the easiest and cheapest way, but def the least posh. Not that it matters, It's not like my boat is some bristol yacht. I am considering attaching foam to the trailing edge of the rudder, working it to shape, and putting a few layers of grp cloth on it. I am thinking if I go this route I will use 3 maybe 4 at most layers of fiberglass to allow it to crush and avoid damage to the original section of the rudder if I grounded hard, hit a dead head etc. Any input?

    I am in the design stage for my windvane self steering too! I am working from Bill Belcher's book. I am unable to mount the aux rudder on the centerline because my outboard is there, and I do not want to move it because I am afraid of messing with the boats balance. 25hp 4 stoke hanging off the back weighs enough to affect the trim if it is offset, my guess anyway. I am going to go with a horizontal windvane controlling 2 balanced aux rudders on either side of the outboard. Each rudder will be 1/4 the area of the main rudder. I am still hashing out the details, but I am getting together  workable plan. Not having trim tab or bearings below the water line is a plus, aswell as being able to make the aux rudders flip up incase they hit something, or I need to reverse out of a slip, unfoul them ect. 

    The engage/ disengage needs the math finished, but I plan to make redwood, rock maple, or oak (ideally iron wood if I can find some cheap) rack and pinion gear system. The rack will connect the two aux rudders, and I will build a spring loaded engagement system to drive it. Pull a line, and the spring compresses and disengages the pinion gear, release it and it engages. Simple enough. I just need to find some nice quality old growth hardwood to build the drive gears from. I will varnish the gears and most likely keep them lubed up with healthy amounts of crisco or similar to quiet them down and help keep them from wearing. I am sure I will have some experimenting to do. 

    I feel it is prudent to take care of the rudder work and self steering while I still have the rig I am used to, so I can get it to work dependably. I do not want to run out of rudder when I do the junk rig conversion. Let me know what you think! Your input is always appreciated. 

     

     






     

     

    Last modified: 31 Dec 2016 18:58 | Deleted user
  • 20 Dec 2016 22:45
    Reply # 4469391 on 4458527

    James - if you are certain that the wire is breaking because of the unfair lead, and if you really can not change the idler pulleys to get better angles, you may want to explore changing the wire to spectra (pre-stretched) and use something similar to these.  From your description it was not clear to me how you tension your system but you will want to take that into account.  And, a brummel splice with the proper taper will be most secure and strong, but if the bury runs over a pulley, remember that the diameter of the line will be greater and it still needs to fit properly in the groove of the pulley.  There are some knots that work, too, but the rope is very slippery and most knots will slip.  Finally, all your pulleys need to be polished so the line will not be cut.  

    Erik

  • 14 Dec 2016 05:38
    Message # 4458527
    Deleted user

    How is it going?

    I figure I should modify my rudder and beef up the steering of my boat prior to junk rigging her. That way I can get used to her and make changes one at a time to figure out if I have any issues with anything.

    I plan on enlarging my rudder, so I want to be sure my steering system will be up to the challenge of dealing with the increased forces.

    My steering runs off of a rack and pinion gear mounted to the rudder shaft. The cockpit wheel is mounted right to the gear. It's bulletproof, and I can not see any way for this beefy bronze setup to fail. 

    The hiccup I have been dealing with since getting the boat is with the pilot house wheel. This operates by having a brass gear running off of the opposite side of the wheel. A motorcycle chain rides the gear, attached to lengths of just regular chain crossed, then attached to wire rope running through a few pulleys back, back to the pedestal in the cockpit, then attaches to another motorcycle chain that operates the gear.   

    I have a friction point that I have discovered causes the wire rope to sever. I wanted to use Edson pull-pull wire rope conduit, but dang thats a lot of cheddar. Anyone know of any cheaper alternatives?

    My other idea is to sleeve the bulkhead causing the rub point with an oil impregnated bronze bushing, and trying to introduce another pulley to hold the wire rope centered through the opening. This is obviously directly after a necessary turn, and in a tiny little space with little room to work. A case of easier said than done. I have isolated this as the only friction point, and all the breaks of the cable have occurred in the same spot. 

    I would love any ideas or advice!

    Ciao,

    James

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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