Hi,

the origin of the New Zealand CAT 1 regulations was the rescue of a series of grossly under prepared and under equipped  boats, and was the government's response to that by  a heavy handed and bureaucratic piece of legislation.  When I got Arcadian ready for her CAT 1 inspection I had to deal with this. I found that most of the people enforcing the regulations were quite reasonable at that time. The trouble is that Politicians will not let things alone and continually add things to make this kind of legislation more and more onerous and expensive, and the people who enforce the legislation become more and more full of their own importance so that it becomes progressively more difficult to satisfy their interpretation of the regulations. 

I can see the sense of having some kind of filter to stop the grossly unprepared from setting out on an ocean voyage, but also respect the opinion of those very experienced sailors who are forced to go through the process against their will.

All I can say to people like Annie is that the regulations are there and have to be complied with in one way or another, so read the regulations and comply with them, and unless they have changed the rules recently, no you do not need a life raft, you can comply with the regulations with a properly equipped dinghy. Possibly a new commission for John Wellsford?

David.

Annie Hill wrote:

That's fine, David.  If that's how you choose to go offshore, no-one is stopping you.  My objection is that they are trying to stop me (and Zane and other people) from going offshore in the way that we choose.

I would hope that any friends of mine would wait for my extreme ETA plus 50% before starting seriously to fret.  And then just put the word around 'has anyone seen Annie?' and not call out the cavalry.  Besides, I don't want to be rescued and feel an enormous unpaid debt to society for the rest of my life!

So, if we are out there in the ocean and our boats are going down in the same set of extreme circumstances, and as I drift pass your sinking boat in my life raft I will very happily offer you a ride. But here's the deal - because I am providing all the boring things like raft, EPIRB, flares and all of that kind of stuff, you need to bring the fun things like beer and nibbles. And I think that even in the life raft I would like to live in a bit of style which would include my glass of Merlot at sun-downer time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

 I am doing best I can to copy Roger's ideas in my boat refurbishment, but they can still fail me, example, as my bilge pump is going to exit into the cockpit as its the only place it can exit as my stern is sealed off aft. 

If I remember correctly, the pump of MingMing II exits into the cockpit - although the Achilles has a large outboard well in it.

Yip Jami, I think from memory you are correct.
I have no cockpit well. Instead I raised the whole cockpit 6 inches (after removing the inboard engine), removed all thu hulls, and glassed over all holes below waterline.  Have no well, but instead have two drain pipes glassed in thru the transom where water can exit the cockpit.

Annie wrote:

David wrote: Annie, for the avoidance of doubt, could you confirm that you're thinking of the sail shape as shown in your avatar, which is the same as the drawing that I currently hold as the latest version, dated 6 November 2016?

That's the one.  I just love it!

Was the tabernacle set at 2 degrees forward rake?

Anonymous wrote:

Fiji, awesome. Slight thread drift - don't register her as 'NZ Ship' then, because the whole Cat 1 thing runs against the spirit or "ethos" of how you have voyaged offshore in all your years of sailing, and I can't see you changing your ways to meet a checklist of what they need. Plus it is $1K to register, and needs to be renewed after only 5 years, and they whack you with another thousand to renew.  

Sorry Guys, but I have to differ on this one. When we went to New Caledonia I put Footprints through Cat 1. I looked at other options of registering offshore, but in the end it did not stack up. I know my situation might differ from some other cruisers in that we were cruising as a family, but it was not expensive, and it was not onerous.the boat was not 'loaded down with safety equipment', and as a responsible Mariner I would not have chosen to sail offshore without the safety equipment that NZ Cat 1 required me to have. I have absolutely no regret at having to comply with the Cat 1 requirements, and if I ever get to go offshore again I will very happily equip my boat to their 'checklist' because I think that it is the minimum that any responsible offshore sailor with a crew would have on their boat. Yes, the Part B registration only lasts for 5 years, but the cost of that was also quite minimal compared with other ongoing costs that we have these days, such as vehicle registration, and ongoing housing costs if we live on land. All in all we feel that our 3 month holiday in New Caledonia was very inexpensive, if we had been able to carry on cruising for 6 months, or years, then the investment and compliance required for New Zealand registration and Cat 1 with have been so insignificant to not even count.

Hi David, I cant hold a candle to your experience, nor Annie's, but you both have diametrically different views on this one it appears - and you both have my utmost respect.

The "check list" of "requirements" has grown significantly in past few years, including things like proving GZ curves and righting moments of your boat, proving you have been offshore as crew before , needing to have a long distance radio, having to attend and pay for a safety seminar where you get dunked in the water in a big swimming pool type situation (a recent addition to cat 1 requirements) etc etc etc.  

The safety gear certainly will cost a few thousand, and throw in another thousand bucks to register, and it all adds up.  But what price safety I guess...but the counter argument is Roger's Mingmings' would both have failed cat 1.....which would be maniacal as his boats are probably safer than 99.9% of boats that sail offshore from NZ each year.  I am doing best I can to copy Roger's ideas in my boat refurbishment, but they can still fail me, example, as my bilge pump is going to exit into the cockpit as its the only place it can exit as my stern is sealed off aft. 

Plus, when I sail offshore for the first time in the years ahead, I want it to be my first time offshore period - I don't want to experience offshore sailing on someones elses boat and under someone elses command first...I want to do it alone, by myself single handed, and prove it to myself I can do it, and the only way to do that is...to do it yourself - so because of this , that philosophical way I want to approach things will automatically fail me with Cat 1 inspector as I have not crewed - even as rail meat where you could theoretically do nothing but swap as dead-weight from port to starboard all the way to Fiji or New Caledonia on some race yacht as a bit of rail-meat, and that would count I guess - but as I said, I don't want to do that.
I guess I want to be responsible only for myself, and I don't want to crew on some meaningless passage with some boat and captain I don't know from a bar of soap, just so I can get that bit "ticked" off the cat 1 checklist.

I guess in the years ahead I can slowly accumulate all the cat 1 gear, gain as much experience in NZ waters that I can, and then if they still fail me for being lacking either in experience or some missing gear when the big day finally arrives when I want to cast off for the horizon, then I will just have to put my little yacht on a container ship and ship her somewhere without cat 1 requirements and also register under a different flag, which theoretically I could do as I have an EU passport as well as a Kiwi one.

Anyway, this is all for the future for me personally, but I really am not going to put up with some guy with a clipboad telling me I can't sail offshore on my boat when the time comes.

Annie, I hope you don't mind the slight thread drift from the building of Siblim, but I guess it is somewhat relevant as to where you actually do end up registering Siblim.